Fucking Council Tax Single Person Penalty

[Honper]

Or: why should I pay 50% more tax than my neighbours?

Council tax is a regressive abomination anyway and ofc like everyone else I resent paying it so my useless council can spend thousands on things like Tree Stories Near You or Four Foot Long Cycle Path Initiatives while failing to patch potholes so big that geese nest in them but still. As a single person I have a very particular axe to grind wrt paying 50% more TAX than someone in a couple.

I know that single life is more expensive, economies of scale yadda yadda and I already pay out proportionally more from my wages for bills, food and so on. I get that and it's not great but it's how it is.

But why is my tax liability so much greater than that of my married neighbours? I pay 50% more tax than each of them.

Come on, that's not right is it? It's not a bill. It's a tax. Single people's tax burden should not be so much more.

Or should it? AIBU?

It’s a tax on a property, not on you. Same as stamp duty. Did you get angry about paying more stamp duty than married couples as well?

Road tax does not exist. Vehicle excise duty goes into the general pot, so can be spent on anything.

The poll tax was just ridiculously unfair. Yes you paid per person but you paid the same whether you lived in a one bed flat without a garden or a huge mansion. That was the main problem.
To pay per person but with a banding depending on the value of the property would appear to be the fairest system but that has never existed to my knowledge.

It's a tax on the property, not on the individual, so you are not paying more than anyone. It's simply that other people have chosen to share their property with other adults, who can share responsibility for paying the bills.

Get a boyfriend and pay the same or move to a smaller house for a cheaper band 🤷‍♀️. I'm guessing you put your bin out to be emptied each week and use the roads the same so you arent really using 50% less of some of the services it pays for. We only have 1 car, our neighbours have 4 cars (2 parents, 2 adult children) they pay the same as us for 4 adults and 4 cars to our 2 adults and 1 car. Same size house so same amount to pay.

I think how it's done is fair really, a couple living in the same house isn't using double the services, yet you aren't using 50% less either.

The thing I’ve never understood re council tax is seeing how it’s based on house values, how can someone in a mansion pay only x3 that of someone in a bed sit?

To me, it illustrates the crab effect - everyone is focused on a few hundred when presumably Buck palace (or anyone living in multi mill houses) is paying circa £2.7k against Jenny’s £1k for a bedsit.

www.rbkc.gov.uk/council-tax/guide-council-tax-benefits-and-business-rates/your-council-tax-and-business-rates-2022-23-and-our-performance-and-spending-plans/council-tax-2022-23

Where would you draw the line at fairness though?

A single person uses less council services than a couple. Not half though, hence why the discount is not 50%.

A single parent with multiple children will use more services than a single adult. So why should a household of 1 adults pay the same than a house of 1 adult and 2 children? Many people have more or less bedrooms than they "need", so property size/value isn't a good indicator of how many people live in a particular property.

What about more than two adults living in a property, perhaps adult children, should they pay an additional premium?

The current system is floored, but a new system will be equally disliked as many people would see bills increased. The admin costs would also be increased, leading to higher bills all around.

It’s a tax on the property so the refuse collectors for example have to visit there each time no matter how many people live there.

If 5 people live there it’s £1000 / 5 = £200 each. Is that unfair on a couple who pay £500 each?

It was taxed per person, followed by the poll tax riots. It then became per property with deductions available.
It's just a means of taxing people to provide services. There's 2 of us, we use the same services as any other 2 people. Why should we pay more just cos our house is bigger/more expensive? The answer seems to be that it is fairer.

It costs the same to get the van and come to your house and collect the bins as it does to go to your neighbours though?

You are being a bit silly @Honper and seem to lack understanding how a tax works.

Local council tax covers so many things, including police, roads, grass cutting, and refuse.

We could all say we don't use various things, but we shoulder the burden.

As others have said, it's like saying you shouldn't pay tax for teachers if you have no children, or not if you already pay for private education, etc.

Surely you haven't got to whatever age you are and don't understand it's not just for your bins?

As others have said your bins get emptied the same as 2 person households, you can use the library if you want to, you use the roads the same as everyone else. Charging individuals in a household would discourage adult kids living with parents or elderly parents living with their adult child at a time when there are already not enough properties to go round.

My NDN lives alone. Everyday her children, grandchildren, sister descend on her house. They seem to do all meals there. Her bins are overflowing.
I suppose they all pay council tax on their houses though and don’t use theirs as much instead though.

There probably will never be a system that’s totally fair. But one of my problems with council tax is that if you can’t pay it, you are pursued extremely aggressively and ultimately end up with bailiffs at your door with massive charges added on to the bill.

That will have pushed a lot of people into poverty over the years. So yes it is different to another bill.

Wouldn't one person on average use the things like roads, the police etc less than two people though? Wouldn't 1000 people use those services a bit less than 2000 people to make the numbers a bit bigger.

You probably won’t like to hear that a big proportion of your council tax goes towards social care - in some areas that’s over 40% of the budget, but is actually only used by a small percentage (say 2%) of the population. I know for many that’s a contentious issue. But hopefully the funding will be there if we need it.

I too agree that 50% of any council tax bill covers the property - street lighting, bin collections, road maintenance, police, fire, parish council. The remaining 50% (reduced to 25% for single occupancy) covers the amenities for example libraries, social care, children and families, sustainable transport and so on.

Council Tax has been around for as long as I can remember, it’s part and parcel of having a home and whether we like it or not, we have to contribute to society.

However, I completely agree with the OP about Council Tax bands. A four bed farmhouse in Lincolnshire on several acres of land is band D, my much smaller house in the East of England is band E. It was built in 2017 so we were disadvantaged by the valuation based on figures from 1st April 1991. It needs a complete overhaul!

Life ain't fair shocker!

Buying the flat in the first place was making that choice, I bought a flat and lived alone at 22, it was more expensive, it was a luxury. I accepted that when I did. It.

Actually I personally think in theory the poll tax was “fair” - in that each adult contributed for their portion of refuse collection, road maintenance, social care et al.

The problem is, it was seen as a class war.

OP, next time you’re house-hunting; note both the EPC and the Band. Or, shudder get a man in. 🤮😉

I literally do not see why not? It's as valid a choice as any other

It was a class war!
I lived in a grotty 1 bed flat in Hackney at the time. Now I live in a 4 bed detached in a naice area I would have no problem with it 😉

I'm not sure what you're on about @Honper . The situation with council tax is the opposite to what you describe. Single people pay less.

It would throw up most of the same problems as the poll tax. You would have the live in nanny or carer paying a tax based on property size alongside their employer.

Yes, it's an unfair tax. A single household should not be paying anywhere near 75% of that paid by a multiple adult household!
In the case of HMO's in my neighborhood, there are often 10+ tenants.

Per property, I mean.