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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Fucking Council Tax Single Person Penalty

354 replies

Honper · 18/01/2023 23:41

Or: why should I pay 50% more tax than my neighbours?

Council tax is a regressive abomination anyway and ofc like everyone else I resent paying it so my useless council can spend thousands on things like Tree Stories Near You or Four Foot Long Cycle Path Initiatives while failing to patch potholes so big that geese nest in them but still. As a single person I have a very particular axe to grind wrt paying 50% more TAX than someone in a couple.

I know that single life is more expensive, economies of scale yadda yadda and I already pay out proportionally more from my wages for bills, food and so on. I get that and it's not great but it's how it is.

But why is my tax liability so much greater than that of my married neighbours? I pay 50% more tax than each of them.

Come on, that's not right is it? It's not a bill. It's a tax. Single people's tax burden should not be so much more.

Or should it? AIBU?

OP posts:
TroysMammy · 19/01/2023 07:25

My council tax band for my 2 bedroom is exactly the same band as my neighbours in a 3 bedroom. It was challenged years ago but the council said tough.

Athenen0ctua · 19/01/2023 07:29

DontMakeMeShushYou · 19/01/2023 00:28

On that basis, single people should have a bin a quarter of the size of a family of four. To make sure everything is fair and no-one is getting less or more than anyone else.

Show quote history

Fine by me! Mine are far too big, it takes literally months to fill the recycling bin (can't be bothered to put it out until full) and I only have one or two bags (the old plastic supermarket bag size) in the rubbish. That's with two of us.

EasterIsland · 19/01/2023 07:30

Strong agree @Honper And if you have no children you’re paying proportionally far far more than a couple with children, and not using at least a half of the services.

Which is OK, it takes a village, yada yada yada

EXCEPT when people go on about “selfish” single women, or that people without children don’t know what real love is, or that we don’t contribute.

But yes, the single discount should be 50%

EasterIssland · 19/01/2023 07:30

My sister in law with her parents. That means they are paying 1/3 each. Your situation. Is so disadvantaging comparing to theirs!

the reality is that you choose whether to live alone or not. Your house consumes the same as your 2 adults neighbours house so you should pay the same.

Twiglets1 · 19/01/2023 07:33

Forgooodnesssakenow · 19/01/2023 07:24

You have a choice too. You choose to live alone. Therefore you pay the 50% property element alone and get 50% discount on the person element. If you had a flatmate you'd share your space and also share both the 50% property element and pay 50% each of the person element. Your choice to live alone is expensive.

Single people have the option not to live alone.

Show quote history

Bit of a sweeping statement - do you honestly believe that there is no one in the world who doesn't have the option of living with a partner/friend?
Don't you know that there are some very lonely people in the world (not saying OP is one of them but it's ridiculous to suggest everyone who lives alone does so by choice).

OP has already said her flat is tiny. If it's one bed or even a studio flat, do you still think she should choose to share with a friend? Or maybe she should grab a man - any man, even if abusive or otherwise awful?

Rewis · 19/01/2023 07:35

Where I'm from council tax is based on your income. It is also automatically deducted and therefore its not a bill to be paid. I don't think a perfect system exists or fair system exists when it comes to tax.

Soontobe60 · 19/01/2023 07:37

Honper · 18/01/2023 23:45

The single person discount is 25%. Therefore I am taxed 75%. Couples are taxed at 50% each. So I pay 50% more than each of them. In tax.

That’s an odd way of looking at it. The tax is on the property, not on the person. The discounts do apply to the people living in the property, but they’re not generally income based. So you get a 25% reduction. Your neighbours could be a retired couple on state pension, who don’t drive and never go out, whilst you could earn £100k a year and drive a massive 4x4. Should you still pay less than them? What is your suggested solution?

Swiftswatch · 19/01/2023 07:37

As a single person I have a very particular axe to grind wrt paying 50% more TAX than someone in a couple.

Well you don’t, you pay 25% more and you live.
You chose to live in a property alone. You don’t get a single person discount on your mortgage.

Pleiades2020 · 19/01/2023 07:41

You are 100% correct, it is not fair. People say bin collections but you'll produce less waste. People say potholes but you're only one driver not 2 (or more). The fact of the matter is that it costs a lot more (per person) to live on your own. I can understand the discount maybe shouldn't be quite 50%, but it should be nearer 50% than 25%.

ScarlettSunset · 19/01/2023 07:42

I hate it too. I also hate that as a single mum to a student who has my house as their home address, I have to fill in a form to declare this, including the end date of their course, every few months, just in case anything changed and I forgot to declare it. And I have to respond to that form immediately else they'll charge me full from when the course started. Because it's like they don't believe I can be the only one who's expected to pay council tax living here.

Reugny · 19/01/2023 07:43

People who write threads railing about council tax don't know the history of the rates and poll tax in England.

The poll tax is why you don't pay per person. It led to middle England protesting in the Tory heartlands, riots and helped with the down fall of a prime minister.

There is no fair property/local tax system. You can either pay it per property regardless of the number of occupants or on your salary. I've lived in countries where it was taken as a percentage of your salary.

Itloggedmeoutagain · 19/01/2023 07:43

We've already established that the poll tax didn't work.
Would your solution be to pay individually for services like bins, leisure, libraries, parks, etc because I can't see another alternative.
If you have one let's hear it

Reugny · 19/01/2023 07:45

Pleiades2020 · 19/01/2023 07:41

You are 100% correct, it is not fair. People say bin collections but you'll produce less waste. People say potholes but you're only one driver not 2 (or more). The fact of the matter is that it costs a lot more (per person) to live on your own. I can understand the discount maybe shouldn't be quite 50%, but it should be nearer 50% than 25%.

In London and other cities there are households without cars. Are you saying they shouldn't pay for roads to be repaired? Even if you are stuck in your bed you get goods and services delivered to you and these come via road.

DressingForRevenge · 19/01/2023 07:46

Your 4’ cycle path pales into insignificance against final salary pension schemes.

temember that next time you see OAPs on their 3rd cruise of the year.

Itloggedmeoutagain · 19/01/2023 07:46

Pleiades2020 · 19/01/2023 07:41

You are 100% correct, it is not fair. People say bin collections but you'll produce less waste. People say potholes but you're only one driver not 2 (or more). The fact of the matter is that it costs a lot more (per person) to live on your own. I can understand the discount maybe shouldn't be quite 50%, but it should be nearer 50% than 25%.

How much do you think it would cost to organise the bin wagons to come more to some houses and less to others? Unless you get a full estate with single occupancy that's going to cost more not less

Forgooodnesssakenow · 19/01/2023 07:47

Twiglets1 · 19/01/2023 07:33

Bit of a sweeping statement - do you honestly believe that there is no one in the world who doesn't have the option of living with a partner/friend?
Don't you know that there are some very lonely people in the world (not saying OP is one of them but it's ridiculous to suggest everyone who lives alone does so by choice).

OP has already said her flat is tiny. If it's one bed or even a studio flat, do you still think she should choose to share with a friend? Or maybe she should grab a man - any man, even if abusive or otherwise awful?

Show quote history

Not at all, I was single for years after leaving home at 18, I loved with friends and flatmates until I could afford the luxury of living alone. Which was when I was around 22. It WAS a luxury having my own space entirely. If op would be better off living with a friend in a 2 bed flat and wanted to save money then moving would be an option. I'm saying choosing a self contained home and living alone so both a choice and a luxury.

sageandrosemary · 19/01/2023 07:49

Oh come on, your post is very misleading. You pay the tax on the property. Some people might question whether it's fair that you receive a 25% discount.

ArcticSkewer · 19/01/2023 07:52

The poll tax didn't work in the way it was introduced.

That doesn't mean we have to forever stick with a system of taxing houses.

We could introduce a local income tax, a poll tax, a tax on windows, whatever system we collectively decide. Or we could have an individual tax that pays for some stuff then a separate bill per household for rubbish collection, as it seems a sticking point. Perhaps charge per kilo.

Pleiades2020 · 19/01/2023 07:56

Itloggedmeoutagain · 19/01/2023 07:46

How much do you think it would cost to organise the bin wagons to come more to some houses and less to others? Unless you get a full estate with single occupancy that's going to cost more not less

Show quote history

It's not just the cost of collection, councils have to deal with the waste, recycling and transportation costs which are all per person. Apart from the road outside your house and the lighting roads etc. are per car/bus. If you live on your own you'll use a lot less than 75% of the services of a similar house with 2+ people in it, but you still pay 75%. I'm just saying the discount should be more, but maybe not 50%. Something like 35-40%.

totallyhadenoughofthisbs · 19/01/2023 07:57

I totally agree with you OP. This affected me in the past and it's so unfair.

House next door could have 5 adults in it and but I'd still be paying 75% while they pay 20%!

Also the band C thing is really unfair. My tiny flat was band A. Am now in much larger house and its band C. Can you appeal that at all?

fishonabicycle · 19/01/2023 07:57

It's a tax on the property, not the person. It's not difficult to understand. That's why big houses pay more. Paying per person penalises people with less money.

AnneElliott · 19/01/2023 07:57

I think the issue with the poll tax was that although it was charged per adult in the property, it was the responsibility of the head of the household to pay it. So someone who has adult kids living at home had to pay it all (or face prosecution) and then get it off the other adults in the house.

I think a charge per individual is inherently fairer, but I can't see any Government es ring to try that again.

Pleiades2020 · 19/01/2023 07:58

Reugny · 19/01/2023 07:45

In London and other cities there are households without cars. Are you saying they shouldn't pay for roads to be repaired? Even if you are stuck in your bed you get goods and services delivered to you and these come via road.

Show quote history

No I'm just saying the discount should be more for single occupancy.

Twiglets1 · 19/01/2023 07:59

Forgooodnesssakenow · 19/01/2023 07:47

Not at all, I was single for years after leaving home at 18, I loved with friends and flatmates until I could afford the luxury of living alone. Which was when I was around 22. It WAS a luxury having my own space entirely. If op would be better off living with a friend in a 2 bed flat and wanted to save money then moving would be an option. I'm saying choosing a self contained home and living alone so both a choice and a luxury.

Show quote history

So you haven't answered my question at all. Do you imagine that every single person has the luxury of having friends to live with? Do you imagine that every single person has the luxury of living in a flat big enough for flatmates? It's not about you and your situation.