AIBU DH job debate

[AskingforDHJ]

I am half asking on behalf of DH, half asking WIBU for being so flatly in one jobs corner.

DH is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place making a decision whether to take a new role or not, I am very much in the camp of one job in particular, but we are disagreeing so wanted to get some external input.

Job 1 - his current role
been there for 17 months
salary - £68,000 plus 10% bonus yearly (was 20% but they’ve reduced it)

he is miserable in role, pretty much a glorified handyman, not valued but is seen as ‘useful’ snr management are very difficult to get along with, but he likes his peers and the team he manages.

Rumours swirling that the company is going to be sold within the next 6-12 months - and due to DHs job/sector being down valued in the past few years he would struggle to find another job in a hurry if made redundant (which would be likely if the company sold up) so not secure

limited to no flexibility, they get funny about WFH (apparently you can only motivate a team by sitting next to them, but that doesn’t apply for snr management who are in once a month if that)

Job 2 -
A role he has been in the process of starting for nearly a year (needed high levels of vetting so it’s been 11 months since getting an offer to being able to start)

civil service job, he has wanted to get back into the civil service since leaving 6 years ago

salary - here is the issue, a role was advertised at £45k-£66k dependant on experience, DH is somewhat over qualified for the role (which the hiring manager raised) so asked for the top of the band, was told the top of the band is for x years served so not actually achievable for new starters (so why advertise at that) and was verbally offered £55k. He was then approached for a different role with the same organisation, was told (again verbally) as it’s the same band the salary would be similar. He went for the other role as it was a better fit, and got a formal offer of £43k, which he queried, it was then raised to £45k and now is sitting at £47k which is their ‘final offer’

The people in HR he is dealing with are being quite difficult and it’s putting him off accepting.

Flexibility - very flexible, more WFH than in the office/on location, also offers compressed hours from day one if you like (so DH would plan to do 4 day weeks, which would help with childcare costs, and general work life balance)

Although he hasn’t started yet he had a few days in to spend time with the team he’d be leading, they are all lovely and he likes them.

It’s also working on a site that has sentimental meaning to him, as way back when his grandfather also worked at this location and always talked about how much he loved it etc.

Personally I am very pro job 2, we are due our first child in 8 days time and the flexibility would be helpful all round, he also gets more holiday with job 2 and I think it would be a job he is happy in, he hasn’t been ‘happy’ in a job since leaving the civil service and it really gets him down. I earn well, so salary imo isn’t the most important factor, but DH grew up ‘poor’ so is struggling to take such a large pay cut during a COL crisis.

So wise MNers

YABU - Job 1

YANBU - Job 2

Chuck the pay figures or both jobs into a 'How much tax/deductions would I pay?'- they are available on the internet.
Even though he could be taking a drop in salary if he's paying less tax - the difference may not be as great or bad as you think!!
But regardless - it sounds like job 2 is a better fit for him.

Just wanted to add that if job 1 does go Pete Tong he likely won't get any redundancy money. Can you afford to risk that there would be no income while he searches for job 3/4/5?

Basic pay drop is £20k (disregard
bonus as that can be taken away any time)

work out what the 20k is in real terms eg after tax and other deductions so what he tha t20k would be in his pocket.
then work out how much WFH would save you in travel costs and buying lunch etc. and how much a day of not needing childcare would save (plus a day off a week can mean saving on ready meals or other timesaving but expensive shortcuts we all resort to when working full time.

also while you are pregnant/have a small baby you probably won’t be spending as much ok going out and other things. In a years time when you finish maternity he should hopefully have been able to go up a ring of the ladder.

so it’s just like a woman going on maternity at greatly reduced pay - just it’s the man having reduced income in your situation.

We can afford the risk of no income, as have healthy savings, but it would be a worst case scenario, and would possibly only last 12-15 months on savings if he struggled to find another role (which imo he would sadly)

Job 2 if you can afford it. And yes, work it all out post tax as it looks a lot less bad.
And work out over next eg 4 years if he’s in the lower paying job but has a chance to progress, vs being in the higher paying job with a reasonable chance of being then out of work for a year or so. It’s clearly taken a while to get him to this point of the civil service process. Prob not something he can just pick up again.
And flexibility in work - and his own mental and physical health - are so valuable with children. My DH went part time and it hugely helped me as the main earner.

practically 20k lost though! That’s a huge amount! A third of his pay check almost so I can see his point

would he get a payout if he was made redundant?

id be suspicious of all these things the new company are offering unless you know for certain they will materialise.

i think it sounds like for his health and happiness job 2 would be better, but could he achieve that any other way, without the huge drop? Eg could he reduce to 4 days a week at his current role?
or could he realistically argue for more money. They’ve done 11months with him, so you’d think it’d be worth 1-3k at least to not faff around wasting more time finding someone else, unless there are loads of other people who have gone through the process already.

I’d go for job 2, plenty of opportunities to move around.

If there's a chance of progression in job 2, I'd take it. Sounds like a really good fit for him.

The things offered by job 2 are already in place, advertised, known in terms of the flexibility people get so that’s not in question (thankfully)

He’d not get a payout if made redundant, well he’d get a small amount since he has been there a couple of years (if they sell in 6+months) but nothing to write home about.

I have mentioned as a compromise to see if his current role would do condensed hours, as he has been there long enough to do a statutory request now, but even if they agree I’m still not sure it’s better for him to stay (and if they did agree, DH would be firmly staying)

What pension deductions are made for both. Is it possible that once you take pension into account (assuming job 1 isn't defined benefit) that the pay drop won't be as much? What happened to the £55k job?

What are the promotion opportunities for job 2? Staying a year then going for Director roles might help him see job 2 as a long term benefit.

The £55k a year job didn’t actually exist for £55k

Their position is that the original job would have only been formally offered at £43k, hence why the offer for the other role started at that.

As the vetting for job 2 takes so long ( I’m guessing clearance) there are usually private sector consulting firms working alongside the civil servants who desperately need skilled vetted people & will pay a lot more.

The civil service is great for flexibility but the pensions aren’t what they used to be. I’m sure this myth is perpetuated to continue to justify the very low salaries.

It’s not easy to get a pay rise. In order to earn more money you have to keep being promoted.

I would query what HR is telling your husband. They can’t claim the top of the pay band is for people who have already been in the role for X years whilst advertising externally. For new recruits from outside the civil service they really do have the flexibility to offer the top of the pay scale if they consider that the person is worth the salary. You’ve already said your husband is over qualified so it sounds like it would be easy for them to justify.

When I first joined the civil service from the private sector I told them I would only accept the top of the pay scale and told them what my added value was. It worked. However, now that I’m in the system I can only get the bottom of the pay scale with every promotion. It makes a mockery of pay scales but you really are in a stronger position when coming in from the private sector as this is the only opportunity you have to negotiate.

Is there the scope to still accept the original job 2 role? So the £55k one? What are the rules in the civil service about sideways moves into a role like the most recent version of Job 2, would he be able to maintain the £55k? So start and look for internal moves in the medium term?

Sorry crossed post and seen that £55k role didn’t actually exist. I’d maybe now second a PP where your DH needs to go back to HR one ore time to confirm that he isn’t trying to eek out these incremental increases they are offering he is trying to get a starting salary which reflects the experience he is bringing to the role. Once he knows what their reaction to that is it might help make the decision.

Just take job 2 in the short term and then move on.

So is the job offered on the same pay band as the first ( £45-£55k)?
Not sure why they would have offered £43k? Anyway I suppose that is moot as they have now offered more.
We spend a lot of our lives working, and if this is a role he thinks he will be happy in, and you can afford it, job 2 seems the obvious choice.
I worked for the Civil Service for many years and whilst I never had to take much time off due to children being ill, etc, it was reassuring to know that I wouldn’t be given a hard time if I did.
Just one thought there used to be something called reinstatement in the Civil Service, and prior service could count towards seniority and maybe pay rate. I have no idea if that still applies.

Yes same band (45-66), which is why DH questioned (strongly) the 43k as that’s lower than even what was advertised!

I think how they’ve been with the salary has given him some form of ‘job ick’ which he is struggling to get past, I understand logically but I still believe it’s worth the move, even if they have been dicks with the salary negotiations.

Job 1 and apply for others. Also use a couple of weeks unpaid parental leave a year to have some extra time off.

I’d go for job 2.

I had a verrrry similar experience with a civil service adjacent organisation (so got CS benefits but not technically CS) job was advertised with a large band, from memory it was 40k-70k

I asked for 65k plus as was very qualified for the role and they said the same, that the 70k was top for the band so they’d never give more than 60k to new starters because then there is ‘no where to go’

They offered 50k and I agreed on 55 with flex working (as I then saved nearly the 10k on child care with the new working pattern)

I can see why you’re pro job 2, but with such a salary drop and since he has dropped so much in the last 3 years from your updates I think I’d be your DH in this situation.

Will it actually take over a year for him to find another role if he turns down job 2 and loses job 1?

Job 2, but I can understand why he's been put off by the £43k offer if he was verbally offered £55k to start with, and has only managed to get to £47k after negotiating. Who interviewed him and decided to offer the job - is that the person who would be his line manager if he took it? If so can he talk to that person rather than HR?

I think I'd want £50k so if he's on the fence he could decide on the minimum he would accept and tell them that - but of course he has to be willing to walk away if they say no.

Job 2 makes a lot of sense but if he's been feeling undervalued in his current job, the salary negotiations for this job are hardly going to make him feel more valued, and that's before he's even started.

I think you need to have a heart to heart about the importance of him prioritising his mental and physical health. Having your first baby is hard work and takes a toll. He needs to look after himself for everyone's sake.

I'm a bit dubious about what he's being told about the max salary. In most Civil Service departments you have to get approval in advance to advertise a band and not just the entry level for the grade. Which means they probably do have authority to pay up to the top advertised and what he's being told sounds like rubbish and they are trying to get him cheap.

Certainly in the one I was in (HR but not recruitment team) we had to go to a formal Pay Committee with benchmarking data to request permission if we wanted to advertise above the bottom of the band.

Can he email the line manager and go around the Recruitment person (who are often quite junior)? The Manager may have more clout to override them or indeed not be aware about the negotiations going on.

(Either way I agree, Job 2 sounds a better long term choice)