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BS Jobs - most work is a waste of time

59 replies

Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 16:55

Anthropologist David Gaeber, in 2013, suggested that around half the jobs done in developed countries are BS jobs, a pointless waste of time, and the economy would be much more efficient if we do away with these jobs, and give these workers universal credit to do nothing instead.

What do you think? AS a teacher, a lot of my job comes under category 4, while being assessed and monitored by a deputy head from category 5 - every school has one!

Here are the pointless waste of time job categories:

1) flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, store greeters, makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks;

  1. goons, who act to intimidate harm or deceive others goons on behalf of their employer, or to prevent other goons from doing so, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations specialists, community managers;

  2. duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could be fixed permanently, e.g., programmers repairing code, airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive;

  3. box tickers, who create the appearance that something useful is being done when it is not, e.g., survey administrators, in-house magazine journalists, corporate compliance officers, quality service managers;

  4. taskmasters, who create extra work for those who do not need it, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals

OP posts:
GinoVino · 18/01/2023 17:02

Good luck running your classroom/school without the 'flunkie' reception and admin staff.

CathyBoardman · 18/01/2023 17:02

David Graeber was right about most things.

This list is an indictment of late stage capitalism and its mission to keep people busy and consuming rather than thinking, not a criticism of the people who do the jobs.

museumum · 18/01/2023 17:09

My job is nothing like any of those - but I dread to think what life would be like without receptionists and admin assistants. I work for myself but even as a company of one there's admin I'd love to have somebody else do, not to make me feel important but to give more time to the core task I am qualified and paid to do. I LOVE admin people, they make stuff happen.

MintJulia · 18/01/2023 17:14

We check the qualifications of job applicants. All sorts of people lie on their cvs. I guess you'd call that compliance.

Do you fancy being operated on by a fake brain surgeon, or arrested by a fake police officer (well exactly !) or live in a tower block designed by a fake architect?

Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 17:15

Yes, I am not sure about the admin and receptionists on the lists - I have tried to imagine what the world would be like without them. It probably doesn't mean ALL admin and reception staff.

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Randobelia · 18/01/2023 17:19

I work in tax.

Due to govt legislation returns are not optional and can be complex, requiring expert advice.

The admin team are crucial.

I suppose his view would be, what, tax everyone a flat rate or something? Sales Tax only? Zero taxes?

Hardbackwriter · 18/01/2023 17:22

I think it's a sneering and snobbish list. I note that anthropologist doesn't make it onto the list...

People are always keen on getting rid of 'pencil pushers' in favour of 'front line staff' but then they're also in favour of front line staff doing less admin. If you don't have dedicated admin, or compliance, or survey administrators, then you end up with people who have other, specialised skills using their own time to do this.

I also don't understand category 3 at all - does he think it's possibly to write code that never breaks, or make it so that a bag is never lost? How would a world where no one ever addresses a problem unless their solution is a permanent one work, exactly?

Glittertwins · 18/01/2023 17:23

Did he ever consider agile development? It's all about getting the most viable product out there and continuing improvement

RunnyPaint · 18/01/2023 17:24

I used to work in a job on your list and it was both well paid and soul destroying, as I was under no illusions as to the the value of the job (unlike colleagues at my level and above). Not sure about all the other jobs. Who would have the job of checking? 😉

Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 17:25

Hardbackwriter · 18/01/2023 17:22

I think it's a sneering and snobbish list. I note that anthropologist doesn't make it onto the list...

People are always keen on getting rid of 'pencil pushers' in favour of 'front line staff' but then they're also in favour of front line staff doing less admin. If you don't have dedicated admin, or compliance, or survey administrators, then you end up with people who have other, specialised skills using their own time to do this.

I also don't understand category 3 at all - does he think it's possibly to write code that never breaks, or make it so that a bag is never lost? How would a world where no one ever addresses a problem unless their solution is a permanent one work, exactly?

I think the point of category 3 is that these people are dealing with problems that should not have arisen,

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Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 17:27

Gaeber also claims that most people in BS jobs realise that they are in a BS job, so it doesn't really apply to anyone who thinks their job is useful, and if you think you are doing a useful job then you probably are

I certainly recognise many aspects of teaching as category 4 - most aspects of it, in fact.

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CuteOrangeElephant · 18/01/2023 17:31

My job for a fintech startup is probably not important in the scheme of things and could go.

My DH is in plant seed tech and without his sort of job there would be a lot less food.

Wdib78 · 18/01/2023 17:32

My employer never replaced the receptionist who left during first lock down and tbh they're not really needed at this particular company, not enough people come to the building unless expected anyway, calls are picked up by finance and passed to relevant department.

Only thing I disagree with is that they never replaced HR when the last girl left.

But then they promoted someone to a team leader even though they have no team, just because he wanted more money.

CuteOrangeElephant · 18/01/2023 17:33

Also agree code that never breaks and is bug free does not exist.

Passivhaus · 18/01/2023 17:38

Computer makers kind of fit into this category too. What I use my PC for hasn't changed in the last 20 years but I still need a few one every few years as the programmes get more complex. Same could be said for those who write Microsoft Word etc it's not changed it's just a word processor

thecatsthecats · 18/01/2023 17:39

My career is in compliance.

Done badly, it's box-ticky admin.

Done well, it makes your organisation more efficient, improves your quality of output, and reduces the cost of delivery.

I've used compliance to cut 10% from an operating budget, free up hours of staff time, and make sure that staff are using their time effectively (incidentally, to work on developing IT systems).

Everyone was less stressed, making brilliant and useful products with a higher profit level, and I could afford payrises, perks and reduce hours.

All from compliance.

Kazzyhoward · 18/01/2023 17:39

Yes, a lot of jobs aren't necessary, but do we really want to go back to living a very basic, subsistence level of living, i.e. basic farming to grow crops for eat, and "old" trades such as farm machinery repair, farmers, vets, nurses & doctors, local transport, basic entertainment, etc., as that's what you're left with if you take away all the "unnecessary" jobs!

Kinnorafron · 18/01/2023 17:41

Almost every job I've had was much worse bullshit thank yours OP, but there is no shortage of bullshit jobs and bullshitters.

XenoBitch · 18/01/2023 17:42

Passivhaus · 18/01/2023 17:38

Computer makers kind of fit into this category too. What I use my PC for hasn't changed in the last 20 years but I still need a few one every few years as the programmes get more complex. Same could be said for those who write Microsoft Word etc it's not changed it's just a word processor

Wow, ok, so go see an action film at the cinema. The FX look amazing, yes? That is due to he latest computers and software. There is a whole world of computers and what they do beyond your basic home word processing.

Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 17:44

how about advertising, it just makes work for other advertisers, if noone made adverts, no competitors would need to either - if adverts were just a simple, basic formula, and every one was short and contained the same information in the same format... that might work? one whole industry culled!

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DulcetTones · 18/01/2023 17:44

I don't think that having no job at all is good for the average person's happiness, in the long run. Not for the entire life, at least. Some will be fine, but many will suffer from boredom, lack a sense of purpose, turn to drugs/alcohol for escape, or otherwise be worse off than they are now.

BrieAndChilli · 18/01/2023 17:45

The other flaw in the argument of paying these BS jobbers to sit at home doing nothing instead is all the people doing non BS jobs will decide to stay home and get paid instead. Then no one will be doing the jobs necessary or otherwise!

Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 17:45

XenoBitch · 18/01/2023 17:42

Wow, ok, so go see an action film at the cinema. The FX look amazing, yes? That is due to he latest computers and software. There is a whole world of computers and what they do beyond your basic home word processing.

more amazing then the films made 10 years ago or 20 years ago? or even longer ago?

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Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 17:46

DulcetTones · 18/01/2023 17:44

I don't think that having no job at all is good for the average person's happiness, in the long run. Not for the entire life, at least. Some will be fine, but many will suffer from boredom, lack a sense of purpose, turn to drugs/alcohol for escape, or otherwise be worse off than they are now.

I think Gaeber makes this point too - work is necessary, not because we need the work done, but because people need to do it

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Nimbostratus100 · 18/01/2023 17:48

I dont know where I stand on this myself, really - I just found the whole theory very interesting

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