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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Lawyer says I need a barrister and has arranged a meeting next week!

56 replies

urgentplease · 18/01/2023 11:45

To prep documents to serve for a divorce .
Why is this?it's costing me an extra £400.
My ex and I are relatively agreeable on what we both want in the settlement .
Please advise urgently.
AIBU to think this is just a money making racket ???

OP posts:
FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 14:06

Matilda1981 · 18/01/2023 13:57

Quite often having a barrister in court is less expensive than having your solicitor there. You do not need to be represented by anyone and can represent yourself if it is straightforward and you are not trying to argue anything with your ex.

@urgentplease If currently you're just looking at divorce there's usually no need to go to court.

Financial separation can also be done without going to court.

Both can be done just by being "heard by a judge" but this isn't a hearing as such, it's just a judge in a court office reading the paperwork through, and rubber stamping it if he agrees.

Rather than looking at nuances of whether a barrister is cheaper than a solicitor first start off by considering whether you actually NEED a solicitor. And then exactly for which bits of the process. No point deciding a barrister is better to represent you in court if you don't actually need to go to court in the first place.

tappinginto2023 · 18/01/2023 14:06

@FarmGirl78 Lucky man the one thing he could do was manage to find a women to do this all for him.

tappinginto2023 · 18/01/2023 14:08

Agreed that the barrister is probably because there are concerns the agreement might not pass a judge as being a fair division.

FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 14:13

OP has said it's to serve papers for a divorce. I'm perhaps incorrectly assuming they're at the very beginning at the process if divorce papers haven't been served yet. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Original poster
urgentplease · 18/01/2023 14:15

She answered and said that if I wish to draft proceeding to issue court proceedings, I will need a barrister .Are court proceedings absolutely
Necessary if he agrees to the settlement offer ?
He has said he can't afford to divorce or representation at the moment.

My circumstances are that besides a shared property woth my ex,I have an inherited property shared between my siblings and I. And also a hefty pension.

He said he will not go for share of second property or pension as long as he gets 50% equity of our shared home .
He pays £40 per week per child by no court order for future expenses is in situ .
He is self employed and has SFA on paper . Kids dont see him anymore so they are with me 100%.
There is no piount going for extra maintenance as he simply doesn't have it, whereas if I go for more that 50% equity, he has told me that he'll fight me all the way.
Hard to know what to do and as an aside I'm afraid of him .

OP posts:
Original poster
urgentplease · 18/01/2023 14:22

Yes only at the very beginning of the process. I've my affidavits in so this is the meeting where the papers will be drafted to serve my ex.
I was wondering why a barrister would be needed at this stage.
I need to research the whole process clearly.

OP posts:
Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 14:35

If you are frightened of your ex your solicitor and barrister are a useful buffer. You then don’t have to deal with him. Also on the one hand he says he will agree to the settlement NOW but on the other he says he can’t afford divorce right now. He could mess you around for years here. You need advice as he is paying zero for the children (doesn’t matter if he is seeing them or not, he has to pay for them if he can) and you seem to have a lot more to lose than him. It’s all well and good he says now that he won’t look for his share of your other property or your pension but you don’t know what will happen down the road. If you are frightened of him I am sure you gave reason to be and frightening men are usually not that reasonable. Legal representation gives you the upper hand here, do not squander it. It’s often useful to get a barrister on board at the outset of a case as they are in at the start and can advise re your plan for the case to unfold. You should want this to be dealt with as smoothly as possible. Your case is not without obstacles and I would say if you can afford 400 quid now it will be well worth the investment in the longer term.

Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 14:39

Sorry I just saw he does play 40 quid a week per child. Do you know what his income is? Could he have any money put away you don’t know of? I find it concerning he has said that if you don’t agree to 50% of the equity he will fight you all the way. He has no intention of being reasonable, he’s already trying to bully you.

Original poster
urgentplease · 18/01/2023 14:40

Thanks for that reply.
Ar risk of sounding completely dim, what is the divorce process.
I met my solicitor once and then I got an accountant on board to do my finances and affidavits etc . He sent them to her so this is the next step. She has reviewed them obviously and now wants the barrister in on this meeting next week.
Have you any advice re the meeting. What should I be asking ? What happens after the meeting.
I expect that papers will be prepared to serve yes ?? And then???

OP posts:
Original poster
urgentplease · 18/01/2023 14:44

He had many holidays in the last twelve months but has not yet paid extra big expenses that he agreed to originally, outside the £40 per week each.
My children cost a damn sight more than £80 per week each to raise but yet my entire salary is spent on us as a family.
He has lots of cash on his wallet... kids are always telling me this but tells me he has nothing. A lot of cash under the table and nixers.
I asked him a few weeks ago if he was prepared for divorce eg getting an accountant in order and he went absolutely mental, to the point that the children won't speak to him anymore such was his aggression and viciousness towards me .

OP posts:
Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 14:45

urgentplease · 18/01/2023 14:40

Thanks for that reply.
Ar risk of sounding completely dim, what is the divorce process.
I met my solicitor once and then I got an accountant on board to do my finances and affidavits etc . He sent them to her so this is the next step. She has reviewed them obviously and now wants the barrister in on this meeting next week.
Have you any advice re the meeting. What should I be asking ? What happens after the meeting.
I expect that papers will be prepared to serve yes ?? And then???

What part of the UK are you in? Different laws apply.
Don’t be too concerned about the consultation with the barrister, they are there to act for you. You’ll need to give them as much info as you can, why you want to divorce, any behaviour you need to make them aware, your financial situation, what you know about his financial situation and the position re the children. They will then tell you if they need any more info and outline the next steps. I would also say most solicitors and barristers have heard it all before so you shouldn’t be afraid to be open with them.

IVFbeenverylucky · 18/01/2023 14:48

You do not need a barrister to draft. It is an area barristers are experts in (basically it's written advocacy), but most solicitors would do this themselves. It does not sound massively complicated or out of the ordinary to me. That said, £400 is not masses upon masses - how much are you paying the solicitor per hour? It can often be cheaper to pay a barrister to do it (and it's often better too).
I would definitely say you understand most solicitors do this and you want her to do it (but check the rates before doing this as above). Good luck.

Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 15:02

urgentplease · 18/01/2023 14:44

He had many holidays in the last twelve months but has not yet paid extra big expenses that he agreed to originally, outside the £40 per week each.
My children cost a damn sight more than £80 per week each to raise but yet my entire salary is spent on us as a family.
He has lots of cash on his wallet... kids are always telling me this but tells me he has nothing. A lot of cash under the table and nixers.
I asked him a few weeks ago if he was prepared for divorce eg getting an accountant in order and he went absolutely mental, to the point that the children won't speak to him anymore such was his aggression and viciousness towards me .

Try and write as much down as you can remember about money he has spent on big ticket items in the last year or two. If his spending is not reflected in his declared income there will be an obvious disparity.
The fact he is already being so aggressive says to me legal representation would be a good investment for you if you can afford it.

Nat6999 · 18/01/2023 15:05

I had a Barrister when I went to the family court when I was getting divorced, the barrister was only young but she ran rings round exh solicitor.

FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 15:08

In a nutshell....

You decide the reasons you want a divorce (you can now divorce 'together' rather than one person divorcing the other, so this is done alone or as an individual)

The solicitors write this up into a document called a "draft" (because it only becomes real once the court approve it).

They send it to the court who decide whether you're actually in a position to divorce (like you've been married for more than a year, and live in the right country etc) and whether the reasons are good enough. They then send ("serve") the official divorce papers to your ex.

He can agree to the divorce and with the reasons you gave OR agree to the divorce going ahead but not agree to the reasons you gave OR contest the divorce (stupid unless he has bucket loads of money). He sends a form back to the court saying he's recieved the papers and whether he agrees.

You'll get a letter telling you what date the paperwork will be "heard by the court" (no-one actually goes to this hearing, its just a formal thing).
On this date the judge reads and (usually!) agrees and stamps the paperwork, and this is your "decree nisi".

Most people pause the process at this point to get the financials sorted. This is important, because if you DON'T pause and just carry on and complete the divorce, when you later come to do the financial separation he won't technically be your husband anymore, so pension sharing is either impossible or very very difficult). As your situation is more complex with some good chunky assets you'd probably be best to read read read and get that hammered out first.

6 weeks and 1 day after the decree nisi date (assuming neither of you change your mind!) you can apply to convert the decree nisi to a decree absolute, when your marriage will officially and legally be "dissolved" ie over. If you do the divorce bit online on the gov.uk then its literally one minute past midnight that the button appears on your divorce account webpage for you to click, and about 6am that the divorce absolute is automatically processed.

Thats just the divorce bit! My bf's ex decided at 5.25pm the day before the absolute was possible that she wanted to halt proceedings! That delayed things by 6 months, everything went paper based rather than online, sent to Bury St Edmunds national divorce centre who then sent it to our local court, who issued a date for a hearing in person. Which the Ex didn't even turn up to, so the judge laughed her request out of court and granted him the absolute there and then.

Ducksinthebath · 18/01/2023 15:11

FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 15:08

In a nutshell....

You decide the reasons you want a divorce (you can now divorce 'together' rather than one person divorcing the other, so this is done alone or as an individual)

The solicitors write this up into a document called a "draft" (because it only becomes real once the court approve it).

They send it to the court who decide whether you're actually in a position to divorce (like you've been married for more than a year, and live in the right country etc) and whether the reasons are good enough. They then send ("serve") the official divorce papers to your ex.

He can agree to the divorce and with the reasons you gave OR agree to the divorce going ahead but not agree to the reasons you gave OR contest the divorce (stupid unless he has bucket loads of money). He sends a form back to the court saying he's recieved the papers and whether he agrees.

You'll get a letter telling you what date the paperwork will be "heard by the court" (no-one actually goes to this hearing, its just a formal thing).
On this date the judge reads and (usually!) agrees and stamps the paperwork, and this is your "decree nisi".

Most people pause the process at this point to get the financials sorted. This is important, because if you DON'T pause and just carry on and complete the divorce, when you later come to do the financial separation he won't technically be your husband anymore, so pension sharing is either impossible or very very difficult). As your situation is more complex with some good chunky assets you'd probably be best to read read read and get that hammered out first.

6 weeks and 1 day after the decree nisi date (assuming neither of you change your mind!) you can apply to convert the decree nisi to a decree absolute, when your marriage will officially and legally be "dissolved" ie over. If you do the divorce bit online on the gov.uk then its literally one minute past midnight that the button appears on your divorce account webpage for you to click, and about 6am that the divorce absolute is automatically processed.

Thats just the divorce bit! My bf's ex decided at 5.25pm the day before the absolute was possible that she wanted to halt proceedings! That delayed things by 6 months, everything went paper based rather than online, sent to Bury St Edmunds national divorce centre who then sent it to our local court, who issued a date for a hearing in person. Which the Ex didn't even turn up to, so the judge laughed her request out of court and granted him the absolute there and then.

If you're referring to the process in England and Wales then what you've said is well out of date.

OP ask for this to be moved to Legal and clarify which jurisdiction you are divorcing in before you hear any more claptrap.

FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 15:36

The financial separation aka the financial consent order...

You both agree in principle how you're going to separate everything. Theres basically 2 ways.....basic disclosure (form D81) or full disclosure (the dreaded form E).

I can only talk about my experience of the easy D81 way. Form E was about 35 sides of paper and needed bank statements, supporting evidence, pension actuaries, blah blah, nearly made my head explode and I still get cold sweats just thinking about it 2 years later!! As you have some chunky looking assets, pension and properties you'll probably be best going down form E route and paying a solicitor as much as they want to take this nasty nasty bit of the process off your hands.

You fill in the form with all your assests, debts etc which is HOW THINGS STAND BETWEEN YOU AT THE MOMENT. This is sent to the court with a very formally worded document (the draft consent order).

You pay a solicitor to draw up a draft consent order (because remember, its only a draft and not official until the courts agree it) which is very wordy document full of legal jargon and thee's and thou's, and subsection 42 paragraph b, ii type gubbins. You won't stand a cat in hells chance of writing this yourself so don't even try. Its REALLY important that you get make sure there is a "clean break" clause included in this document, because thats the bit that blocks your ex from coming after you in 20 years time if you win the lottery or have a business which does massively well in the future.

The soluctors sends the draft consent order off the court for the judge to consider it and stamp it (seal it) as approved. Judge might decide he (or she!) wants some further answers or explanation of why you've decided on a certain split. This will sometimes be done in writing via solicitor to the judge, or you might have to go to a hearing in person where you'd both be questioned on it.

Consent orders can include child maintenance agreements (which bizarrely can be overuled after 12 months if either of you decide to!), Spousal maintenance (increasingly unusual), or conditions like selling the family home asap or waiting until youngest child turns 18 (mesher order, also increaingly unusual).

The divorce bit of the whole process is MUCH easier to navigate than the financials. Especially is your ex is going to be a dick about it. Maybe try the divorce yourself and just pay lawyers to do the finance bit?

(Please don't rely on ANY of the above, check it all out yourself and read up. I'd hate to have forgotten something vital!)

FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 15:39

This was correct as of 12 months ago. "No fault" divorce has obviously changed things a bit depending on what course you take. I've repeatedly advised to the OP to read up and check everything themselves.

FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 15:43

To clarify....

Since April 2022 (ish, I might be wrong) the Decree Nisi is now called the ‘Conditional Order’.

And Decree Absolut is now called the ‘Final Order’.

Gov.uk explains everything.

Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 15:55

FarmGirl78 · 18/01/2023 15:39

This was correct as of 12 months ago. "No fault" divorce has obviously changed things a bit depending on what course you take. I've repeatedly advised to the OP to read up and check everything themselves.

This explains why you are best advised to take legal advice from qualified professionals.

Riu · 18/01/2023 16:00

It depends on how much money is at stake. Your £400 might save you thousands of pounds.

EmmaEmerald · 18/01/2023 16:08

OP

your first post said you were mostly in agreement and your most recent post says the opposite. Is he trying to contest the whole thing and therefore you have to go to court?

Original poster
urgentplease · 18/01/2023 16:13

He is in agreement if I only look for 50% equity in house. Solicitor wants me to push for 70% in view of lack of care for our kids and not paying big ticket items as agreed some years ago .

OP posts:
torquewench · 18/01/2023 16:16

urgentplease · 18/01/2023 11:45

To prep documents to serve for a divorce .
Why is this?it's costing me an extra £400.
My ex and I are relatively agreeable on what we both want in the settlement .
Please advise urgently.
AIBU to think this is just a money making racket ???

Well, I could tell you, but my hourly charging rate is £275 + VAT.

Fullsomefrenchie · 18/01/2023 16:37

urgentplease · 18/01/2023 16:13

He is in agreement if I only look for 50% equity in house. Solicitor wants me to push for 70% in view of lack of care for our kids and not paying big ticket items as agreed some years ago .

So you aren’t actually in agreement?