To think teachers could stop using parents evenings as a working late example?

[needabreak5]

Reading a few recent teachers threads and I have a few close friends that are teachers. I don’t doubt teachers genuinely work long hours during term time, weekends, evenings etc (as do some other professional jobs but for better pay). However, I do think they sometimes point out the ‘parents evenings’ a bit too much, given everyone knows it’s not even every week, why not just say you work late most nights, without giving that specific reason, surely it’s a drop in the ocean not worth mentioning? I work a 9-6 office job (and usually stay late) but have a fortnightly recurring meeting 6-9pm, I wouldn’t mention it to anyone, it’s a core part of my job (just happens to be outside of normal working day). I just think non-teachers/parents may be more understanding of the relentless long hours if parents evenings weren’t repetitively mentioned as one if the main examples.

It's weird, that with teaching being so incredibly well paid, with such short work days and such long holidays, gold plated pensions on top of that, teachers are leaving the profession in droves...

Why could that be? it's a mystery I think it's just greed. Teachers are just not aware how lucky they are. Parent evenings are just a myth, and if they do happen it is only once a year. Detentions, after school clubs and staff meetings are also urban myths snd everyone knows this. Lesson prep can be done in 5 mins. Marking is unnecessary and can just be done by kids themselves

It's such an easy yet well paid job. I could totally do it myself

Lazy fuckers

It's weird, that with teaching being so incredibly well paid, with such short work days and such long holidays, gold plated pensions on top of that, teachers are leaving the profession in droves…

Who said any of those things though? Certainly not the OP.

It's something I hear a lot

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea
But they don't work 39 weeks a year. Most teachers I know work in the holidays

Even if a teacher works 10 hours per week through every week of the school holidays (they don't) - that's still only an extra £1,235 per year on NMW.

Not on this thread though, so not really relevant to the OP’s point.

When I was a teacher I did 60 hour weeks. I worked every evening, most days in the holidays and at least one day per weekend. And that just kept my head above the water. I was good at my job. I took it very seriously. A housemate said to me I'd be better off working shifts at Tesco as they were essentially paying me less than minimum wage. I realised we were being taken advantage of.

I quit, party due to an injury from working.

I started working for industry instead where they paid me properly, including overtime and even supported considerable professional development.

Now I run a business from home and work nice normal hours.

We're desperate for teachers. If a roll requires 70 hours a week to complete it we either need to reduce the tasks required down to 40 hours or employ 2 people (which they obviously won't). But we do need to pay them properly for the hours worked. How else will we recruit good people to the role?

So even though as a mum of a 7 year old it will be annoying for me I fully support them.

Sorry, in my previous message it should say 'role' not roll

Who cares if they mention parents’ evening?

At every parents’ evening, I think each teacher for giving up their evening and promise not to take up much of their time. I am always conscious of how many they must have to do, at the expense of their own evenings/families. And I mean that, even though I do my fair share of professional antisocial hours.

Funnily enough I came across this thread before I start my third parents evening of the academic year (am a secondary teacher so do 7). I did know about parents evening bride is started. What I hadn’t anticipated was the two presentation evenings for GCSE and Alevel, options evening, transposition evening. Christmas carols and concert, school show, KS3 open evening, sixth form open evening… it’s a lot to pack into 39 weeks.

the worst is parents Eve if as I’m tired from talking for 5 hours and need to talk for another 3. It’s also tiring being openly judged by parents. I try not to cry but I have been known to break down at the end of an evening.

Ignore typos - trying to be quick before 5pm start!

And they average 55 hours Monday to Friday. Then work weekends, some an additional full working day so an extra 10. That takes us to 65 a week for the 39 weeks. Over 1 week half terms and Christmas I work two days, so that’s 80 hours extra a year. Over Easter I will go in two days (although only 9-2) which takes planning so that’s another 14 hours. Over the 6 weeks holiday I will spend a week in school organising my classroom and a week at home planning and preparing so that I don’t start behind, say 50 hours but it’s probably more because of the going to shops for things I buy to use in my classroom (out of my wage because school can’t afford nice things but they expect them).

If you start adding it up then you will understand why we are saying it is equal to minimum wage. Minimum wage doesn’t usually have as much coming out of it either such as student loans, union fees. But you believe what you want to believe.

What is making you think we don’t? I certainly do, if I didn’t I would have to make up the time at other points in the year, which would be after work meaning less sleep. Less sleep=working slower and therefore even less sleep.

So every fortnight you work a twelve-hour day? Is that correct?

GracieLouFreeebush
And they average 55 hours Monday to Friday. Then work weekends, some an additional full working day so an extra 10. That takes us to 65 a week for the 39 weeks

There are various surveys - this one puts the average at 49.5 hours per week;

In the second Teacher Workload Survey, teachers and middle leaders reported working an average of 49.5 hours per week in 2019...
The findings, taken from a representative survey of over 7,000 teachers, middle leaders and senior leaders...

www.gov.uk/government/news/teacher-workload-cut-by-five-hours-a-week-over-past-three-years

Over the 6 weeks holiday I will spend a week in school organising my classroom

Why do you need a whole week to organise your classroom?

Correct, though it’s a busy role/organisation so other days I can work longer than this anyway so I’m used to the longer day - the meeting is just a regular commitment. Others in this thread have agreed it’s not as inconceivable as some think.

Over 38 weeks this is 40h pw?
Which is a normal working week.

NASUWT Website: a classroom teacher can only be directed by the headteacher to work for up to a maximum of 1,265 hours over 195 days of the year.

That's 32.5 hours class-contact per week for 39 weeks.

Can't speak for everyone but my friend has to completely redecorate the classroom. So it'll be whitewashed over the summer hols so she needs to sort out the layout, the drawers, the name cards above desks and pegs, make and print all the signs in the classroom, mount the freeze paper and boarders, sort out her desk and TA hot desks, look at the kids from last year to create initial work groups, gather appropriate equipment, check it's all useable, order (or buy) more if not...even sit and sharpen all the pencils. She teaches yr1.
If she really wants to do it all perfectly it'll take her a week. She can rush it and it'll only take 3 days but that's still 3 days of her holiday. 3 days where she needs to pay for childcare whilst on holiday through no fault of her own.

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea
Can't speak for everyone but my friend has to completely redecorate the classroom. So it'll be whitewashed over the summer hols

The school has a healthy budget then if all the classrooms are whitewashed every year.

I assume your friend is not doing the whitewashing as well.

I stopped full time teaching when I earned £42000 per year and consistently worked longer hours than my husband, a partner in a firm who earns £180000 per year. I reduced my hours when I visited my GP after I found myself wanting to drive into a tree to end the stress. My lesson observations were all graded outstanding. Feel free to crack on and train if you believe it’s 7 hours a day work with 12 weeks of holiday, or it’s just the crap teachers who whinge.

I did 15 hours yesterday and 13 today, still haven't got all my work done but am dog tired so stopped at 9. 28 hours done in 2 days but technically paid for 13. I actually don't mind parents evening it only an hour later then I usually am anyway.

It's not just the odd evening though.

Each year group spread over two weeks so potential for 14 evenings twice a year. Then open evenings for year 6s and sixth form, at least 4 of these. DS is a teacher and there is seldom a week without one so that's 8am to 8pm in school and then home to do the planning and marking.

He easily works 70 hours a week which would be more palatable if pay was better. Out of 13 weeks holidays last year he worked 9 of them.

If they are thinking of the kids as sows ears that might be the issue. There are I am sure great teachers, we just had very few of them. Expecting a teacher to be available for parents evening is not unreasonable.

I didn’t say teachers thought of them that way. I wonder what your perception of a great teacher is, most I know are incredibly dedicated and do their very best to get the children they teach to achieve their potential. They are available for parent’s meetings, just during their working hours, which is entirely reasonable.