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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wonder how a house purchase gets to exchange before it is discovered probate not even applied for?

23 replies

ThisMustBeMyDream · 15/01/2023 13:28

Please be gentle with me because my stress levels are through the roof. Been buying/selling since March last year. I had 3 sales fall through for personal reasons before my current buyer in September. I found my onward purchase last May. They found their onward purchase in early October.
When they found it the estate agent told them probate had been granted. They passed this back to me (we are in contact). Great, chain complete as my buyer was a FTB.
So we all got on with it, with an aim to exhange in Jan and complete for 1st Feb. My buyer is now ready to exchange, as am I. This week it came to light from my solicitor that there was an issue with probate but they didn't know what yet and would get back to me when they found out. In the meanwhile I messaged my vendor who was surprised. She rang her solicitor and from there it all unravelled. Probate was not only not granted, IT HADN'T EVEN BEEN APPLIED FOR!!!
Both myself and my vendor have been in tears, the stress levels are through the roof. We've got packed up the vast majority of our houses and we were all ready for exchange to happen very soon. All we were supposedly waiting on was the response to an enquiry for their purchase. And we would be ready.
Just who the fuck is responsible for this absolutely monumental fuck up that could have caused the whole chain to collapse? As it is my vendor is saying she will break the chain and move to parents or rented once she sees proof probate has been applied for. They are porting their mortgage too so have had to wait to hear confirmation that they can have a break between mortgages. On Thursday night we thought it was all over. Slowly things are being put back in place. My buyer is asking for a mortgage extension to buy them a few extra weeks to sort matters out. But there is nothing I can do in the middle of the chain. I'm reliant on both other parties being true to their word.
I'm just so bloody furious that this has only come to light now. Obviously the EA didn't do any due diligence and have either lied or someone has lied to them. The house is in the hands of a solicitor as the executor. But how has the solicitor of my vendor allowed this to happen? They have had 3 months to check this!! It should be bloody illegal to get this far in to a sale for no one to be aware that probate wasn't granted!

OP posts:

Beees · 15/01/2023 13:33

Oh I really feel for you. I can empathise greatly as out whole chain collapsed at the end of last year when it turned out the top of the chain had filed for bankruptcy. We found out 3 days before exchange. I've still not fully unpacked after the disappointment of it all.

Im pleased things seem to be back on track though and well done to her for agreeing to break the chain.

House buying in England is shockingly unregulated and that makes an already very stressful situation 1000 times worse.

Original poster

ThisMustBeMyDream · 15/01/2023 13:43

All I can think about is having to unpack everything. It brings me to tears every time. I'm sat in my living room now, surrounded by boxes.
All I can do is hope that she will be true to her word. She is taking a massive chance though, with a lot of cost and upheaval for her and her family.
If we don't move now it is all over for us as we are both priced out of the market and also can't afford the current rates - we have a 5 year fix at 3.5% that can't be changed to a new property (thanks Nationwide!). My 2 boys desperately need their own room as one has SEN and them sharing is causing misery all around. The whole thing is just hideous.
And all I can do is sit and wait.

OP posts:

thirdlaw · 15/01/2023 14:00

When my mum died I got probate before putting the house on the market. Estate agents should insist on that, because it can take a long time, especially in the hands of a solicitor. They're probably too keen to get their hands on the business though.

I did the probate application myself, and had it within 2 months of my mum's death, but my cousin took 3 years to get hers because her mum's financial affairs were so much more complicated, with lots of small accounts and small loans to be settled. In the hands of a solicitor, both would probably have taken much longer, because they have no incentive to prioritise it.

Roselilly36 · 15/01/2023 14:01

Oh no! How can this happen? Surely their solicitor knew that probate had not been granted. Of course the property can be marketed, but exchange isn’t possible until probate is granted.

We bought a probate property, thank goodness the family of the lady we were buying from applied for probate, before the property was put on the market, probate was granted after 3mths and we moved 8 weeks or so later.

So sorry this has happened to you OP, that must have been an awful shock. Good luck I hope it doesn’t take too long for probate to be granted 🤞

meganorks · 15/01/2023 14:14

Probate isn't always required so could someone somewhere have made a mistake in thinking they didn't need it? We didn't require probate when my mum died and I told the estate agent why, but I'm not sure he checked any further. In our case, myself and my siblings were named on the deeds after my dad died so we automatically owned the house when mum died.

Still a monumental fuck up. Sorry for all the stress.

Mydogatemypurse · 15/01/2023 14:20

meganorks · 15/01/2023 14:14

Still a monumental fuck up. Sorry for all the stress.

This. It isnt always required and your solicitor should have checked by now if it needed to or not. The vendors solictor will definitely know.

bellac11 · 15/01/2023 14:26

My sympathies, very stressful. We have just had probate granted on an estate, earlier this year it was granted, person died at the end of 2019. Solictor not instructed until early 2020 due to difficult and stupid family. No will so more complicated

So thats over 2.5 years for probate

She is taking a massive risk

Original poster

ThisMustBeMyDream · 15/01/2023 15:10

Unfortunately, it very much needs probate. I've been divorced before and that was far less stressful than this has been. Almost a year of stress... and no real end in sight. I have asked to exchange ASAP if she definitely still wants to go ahead, with completion just before my buyers mortgage expires. So hopefully my part of the stress will be over soon...

OP posts:

LadyGaGasPokerFace · 15/01/2023 21:18

It should be pretty quick. My sibling has a property that he as ‘gifted’ to them but never went through probate. They try to sell it but couldn’t due to no probate. It was like 2 weeks after offer.

RunnerBum · 15/01/2023 21:31

I had a very, very, very (almost eerily) similar situation with my recent sale/purchase. Turns out that the solicitors who were the executors of the estate (and also the solicitors who wrote the will, and also the solicitors doing the conveyancing for the sale) were being paid monthly for the time between the death and the sale...so, the more they delayed it, the more they got paid. Took them four years in the end, and only because I threatened to report to the SRA. I'm sorry you're going through this OP - I ended up giving birth two hours away from home because of my situation. Hopefully it'll get resolved.

ivykaty44 · 15/01/2023 21:36

I applied for probate myself and it was paid for online and granted in 14 days, hopefully the probate office will be able to turn this round swiftly.

NorthernChinchilla · 15/01/2023 22:02

We had similar with our purchase, but with a divorce.

The vendor (bloke of divorcing couple) was pushing to exchange Nov 22... then turns out that the divorcing couple selling it hadn't agreed how the funds would be split. EA didn't know, hadn't done due diligence.

Took another 8 bloody months to sort. Was fuming.

So sorry OP, I know the anger and frustration you must be feeling!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2023 22:10

Obviously the EA didn't do any due diligence and have either lied or someone has lied to them. The house is in the hands of a solicitor as the executor. But how has the solicitor of my vendor allowed this to happen?

I'd expect no better from the EA (who doesn't work for you anyway) but never mind how the vendors solicitor allowed this to happen considering you've clarified that probate was definitely needed - how did YOURS?

This is something I'd be asking them, but looking on the bright side, at least your vendor's committed to driving this through so you should get your new home in the end

nokidshere · 16/01/2023 01:12

In England Probate is always required when a property is involved and there are no other living joint owners of the property. You were a joint owner which is the only reason you didn't need probate.

We needed probate after MIL died and the EA wouldn't market the property until we had proof that it had been done. Luckily it only took a couple of weeks as the estate was very uncomplicated.

WuTangGran · 13/05/2023 22:26

ThisMustBeMyDream · 15/01/2023 15:10

What happened in the end?

Tulipvase · 13/05/2023 22:34

As above, I’m sure probate is needed.

I’d run a mile if they insist on using a solicitor to apply for probate. Unless it’s very complicated, it’s generally much cheaper and quicker to apply directly.

Tulipvase · 13/05/2023 22:35

I see, it’s an old thread!

Original poster

ThisMustBeMyDream · 13/05/2023 23:16

The whole chain collapsed. I lost my buyer as a result. My vendor had said they would break the chain and move out because it wasn't looking like things could be sorted for their purchase in time for my buyers mortgage offer expiring.
Then they changed their mind. So my buyer pulled out.
We had to completely unpack the house. It nearly broke us.

OP posts:

SchoolTripDrama · 13/05/2023 23:32

ThisMustBeMyDream · 13/05/2023 23:16

Jesus Christ... I am so sorry that happened to you. A bloody great petition to Government needs to be created to change the way homes are sold in England as this is ludicrous

WuTangGran · 14/05/2023 02:11

That’s terrible.

EmmaEmerald · 14/05/2023 08:53

I am so sorry about this
I had a dream home fall through for basically no reason last year...I feel your pain.

in terms of responsibility, I think your solicitor should have checked the probate registry before doing anything else. I'd be asking for refunds of their fees on that basis.

Dedodee · 14/05/2023 09:04

My poor bil. His dm was in the middle of a sale and purchase when she died suddenly. Obviously the family had to pull out of the purchase and the vendors were very sympathetic. The sale of his dm’s house is still going ahead but has been held up for 9 months due to probate.
The stress has been horrendous for everyone involved, probate is taking ages, all utility costs for the house still have to be paid but there is almost no money so bil is having to use his savings.
It’s a mess.

fiftiesmum · 14/05/2023 09:17

Why do solicitors take so long to deal with probate (or in fact anything) - is it just an excuse so they can suggest charging extra to "speed things up" ie get on and do something straightforward. People I know who have done it themselves have got completion within two-three months.

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