To think most people who phone for an ambulance could make their own way to hospital?

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Either by getting family or friends to drive them there or getting a taxi. Obviously if you’re on the floor with a broken hip etc and can’t be moved or had a severe stroke an ambulance is required but most people I’ve heard on the news recently talking about how long they have waited, I’ve seriously wondered why they waited 20 hours (or thereabouts) and didn’t just get a lift.

I feel this blame the patients is a distraction tactic to shift the blame away from the goverment failures- NHS has more funds than ever, but half the amount of beds that it had in the 80s with the population growth of 20 million and adding to it daily (thanks to RNLI).

I cant speak for every area but in my area near a large always busy hospital they have built no new hospitals, they have closed and limited urgent care centres down?

what happened with the Nightingale hospitals that were built during covid,stood empty and were put never to use and half a year later dismantled- what a waste of taxpayers money and why were they not put to use?

And of course, Brexit and the current state of the UK is putting people off moving here, I have a few friends who have a medical degree who are not even entertaining the idea of moving to the UK but have gone to Finland, Sweden etc instead.

Completely agree. I know loads of situations where people I know have called ambulances.

Best example is my MIL and FIL. FIL had minor surgery and afterwards was coincidentally doing some (physical) repair work at MIL workplace. He developed moderate pain in the area where the surgery was done and she called an ambulance despite having a car there. The. She was complaining afterwards it took over 40 minutes to come (circa 2018).

I just softly said I don’t know why you called an ambulance though, couldn’t you have just driven him in your car, it wasn’t life threatening? And she was genuinely perplexed it just didn’t seem to have occurred to her.

I’ve never called an ambulance because I or someone else has needed to go to hospital. I’ve called because someone’s life is in danger and they need immediate medical care. I thought that was the only reason you dial 999. Otherwise yes, drive in or get a lift.

You think it's OK to call an ambulance as you cannot afford the parking? Is this a joke? This comment unfortunately demonstrates the entitlement of some people.

Here in Germany when you’ve had a trip in an ambulance you get sent the paperwork a week or so later - in our case a bill for 450€, with a note saying that the Krankenkasse was paying 440€ of it and we had to pay 10€. This and the fact that at the time of calling it I was only allowed to take the ill child with me, had to leave my second child and arrange for them to be picked up from the place we were at the time by a neighbour while I was on my way in ambulance means that I would really only call an ambulance if it was absolutely necessary. Not to say I would have behaved differently before but these are quite low level and easy to implement incentives to discourage inappropriate ambulance calling.

why would a taxi agree to take someone who is bleeding/vomiting/in the process of having a heart attack???

and some people are so dismissive of other people's reality - if you don't have money or a car or friends who have a car then what are you supposed to do when an urgent medical situation arises? i worked for a taxi company years ago and the vast majority of users of taxis were people who were in that kind of situation - couldn't afford to run a car, didn't know anyone who could afford to run a car, lived in an area with a crappy bus service.

This 👏

Also my friend called a taxi when she was in labour as her partner can't drive and she wasn't in a state to drive. Taxi turned up saw friend in very obvious labour and told them to call an ambulance/said he couldn't take them.

Of course people shouldn't phone an ambulance if they don't need one, and I luckily haven't had to, but a lot of posters saying that you don't get seen any quicker seem to be missing the point that paramedics are healthcare professionals, so even if you still have to wait a long time once in a&e, you will already have been seen by a healthcare professional, and in many cases they will have been able to provide some treatment, or at least assess the urgency (which most of us aren't actually trained to do for ourselves, so understandably sometimes we panic). Ok at the moment it still might be quicker driving there if the ambulance is going to be hours and hours, but you don't know how long it's going to be until you phone (do they even tell you then?). Also I'm unlikely to be sure, in case of a fall or bad injury, if it is safe to move them myself (or likely to be strong enough if it's an adult / teen!)

If phoning 111 doesn't result in good advice on if an ambulance is needed or time to get yourself to a&e, or phone GP, then how are ordinary untrained people expected to always make the right call on that themselves?

Also, whilst again, I of course agree parking difficulties shouldn't in theory mean you call an ambulance, if you desperately worried about a loved one, who is either too young, old immobile or unwell to be 'dropped off' alone, then you do need to factor in if you can get them from the parking to the door of the hospital yourself, and if you are not someone who needs to use the hospital often you may well be unsure of that. I haven't been to a&e for years but as far as I can remember if I had to abandon my car outside the door of a&e, I'd be blocking an ambulance bay or the one drop off point for other patients. And I have no idea if there are wheelchairs I could use from the car park, or any staff around to help.

Even if I did feel I could cope with the parking situation, if I was worried about the person I don't think I'd be driving that's safely if I also had to keep an eye on them. So if I was in my own with someone I was very worried about, I may well decide I had better call an ambulance as not sure if I can safely get them there themselves. Yes you are right that a taxi could be an option, and that's probably what I would do, but again, not all areas get them quickly, some situations, eg blood and vomit I'd assume they would refuse, and they are very expensive and probably don't offer freebies in an emergency!

I'm also pretty horrified by suggestions and stories of people driving themselves with chest pains, head injuries, injuries that affect their movement etc - I'm not sure someone passing out at the wheel or being less able to operate a car normally is something to encourage to reduce pressure on emergency services!

So on the whole, of course people should think about if they really need an ambulance or not, but I have empathy for people who make the wrong call, and think the government shouldn't be blaming ordinary people for their shortfalls!

There is undoubtedly too many people who confuse ambulances and taxis. That doesn’t take away from the fact that their are massive issues with the system but it is part of the issue.

the fact the number of 999 calls for ambulance drops so much on strike days shows that many people use it when they don’t need it

But this is the trouble with public services. Some consultant is brought in to give advice on saving money. They don't really have expertise in their area concerned, they're some bright spark from university. They just suggest closing down services or support staff. This looks like it's cutting down on waste but it always costs more money further down the line.

For instance there used to be a network of counselling services for young people called Connextions (sp?). It dealt with drop in mental health services and went into schools. Someone had the idea to close it down, presumably to save money. But the need for those services doesn't go away, so those young people end up desperately trying to be seen at the stupidly overworked Cahms services, at the GP's, or in A&E in crisis. All of these services cost more money than a trained counsellor but no-one considers the impact. I am imagining similar happens with care services, social workers etc. What could have been a managed support service, then becomes shunted onto the emergency services, which quite understandably can't cope.

When I used to work in a branch of the NHS we had a couple of restructurings in seven years, all designed to save money and none of which made the service more effective. What it did do was cost a fortune of management time, reorganising the service, often moving staff around, re-interviewing people for the jobs they were already doing, getting rid of buildings that were perfectly functional and having to re-equip new buildings. I imagine they got rid of some staff, which they then had to re-employ several years down the line.

Rather than getting rid of these services that support people I'd rather put more money into improving them and providing better training. But because everyone is short termist, that will never happen.

It's not that simple. At our a&e there's no space for cars to pull up outside, so if someone is really poorly how are they meant to get from the car park?

Incidentally my DF needed an ambulance last week (suspected sepsis following a chest infection, could barely walk, so necessary) and it came within an hour. They had him on oxygen and fluids before he even got in the ambulance. I was so relieved.

A bigger issue is lack of proper funding of social care - leading to lack of staff = full hospitals.

in the last few months I have spoken to people who called ambulances for a broken back, being unable to breathe & a stroke - all waited hours and hours. We are in one if the worst affected areas but this issue here is not misuse of ambulances.

When my son was unconscious post- seizure we couldn’t move him & he couldn’t sit up. No way could we have got him down the stairs & into the car, or transported him in a car. Thankfully that was when we had a functioning service.

The times ive used an ambulance were:

Bleeding copiously. I was blue lit straight to hospital

Baby DD working very hard to breathe. She ended up on a ventilator. I was terrified to drive her in a rear facing car seat where i couldn't see her, especially because car seats are not a good position to be in breathing wise for a prem baby. She was in hospital for 2 weeks that time.

Why do people keep giving examples of situations where an ambulance was obviously needed? This thread is not about that, it's about people who aren't really poorly. No-one is saying don't call for an ambulance. It's saying don't call for an ambulance unless you need one, if you could just as easily get there under your own steam. The people who actually work for the service, say it is abused, which means people like your DF might have to wait longer.

For instance, I've been pretty poorly, in a lot of pain and very unwell and ended up admitted for several days. However, I was able to get in a car and get to hospital. Someone drove me so I had someone with me at A&E but I could have got a taxi if there hadn't been anyone. I certainly wouldn't have needed an ambulance.

I don't know about your hospital but at ours there is a drop off place in the car park where you can stop for half an hour which would be long enough to get someone into A&E.

This clearly doesn't refer to you. Why have you made it about yourself? Think a little more broadly. OP doesn't mean people who can't breathe.

Perfectly put. I've always been or taken people myself except when DH collapsed. Thankfully they arrived within minutes and were able to support him with heart issues but I literally couldn't get him off the floor and he would have died but the threshold seems much lower for other people I know.

Last week I tripped on a broken paveing stone and fell. I stayed there for a bit while I rotated my ankle and moved my toes to check nothing was broken. A woman rushed over and said she would call an ambulance. I managed to convince her not to but she was very insistent. I am a healthy and in my early forties, I had just twisted my ankle!

I could be wrong but in France don't you get billed for an ambulance ride if the receiving hospital refuse to sign it off as necessary? I have memories of helping translate for a British man with an eye injury. The staff at the walk in clinic at the small seaside town we were in decided he would be better off going to hospital in the nearby city. I am sure they warned he might be charged if they called an ambulance to take him. (He would have been charged any way as the idiot did not have insurance or even an EHIC).

Phone a taxi

I would like to say when my son was v young he has pneumonia. But prior to being aware I called an ambulance for him and to be honest it was because I was in a sheer panic about how unwell he was. Luckily it came very quick. I remember them saying to me it was fine to call and they would rather come especially for a young child. He was taken to hospital and spent a week in. So it maybe the stress of the situation rather than anything else.

I think whether or not most people who call an ambulance should have got themselves to hospital is not really a matter that you can have an opinion on unless you have access to the data about who has called one, why, where they were when they called, and what professional opinion is about the condition they called for.

These endless debates are pointless. It's not for untrained people to bang on about how they drove themselves to hospital with their eyeballs hanging out. It's something a professional body should look at and in a functioning country if it turns out to be the case that people are calling an ambulance when they shouldn't the root cause of that should be established and tackled (e.g. being able to get a gp appointment, having public transport nearby, training more communities in first aid etc).

I get that's not how the UK in 2023 works but we Brits do love this constant 'individuals except me are idiots ' approach don't we.

I know the OP didn't mean life threatening emergencies, but it can be hard for an unqualified person to be sure when something is life threatening and when not, or when it is safe to move someone and when not. And some of the examples people are giving of times when they / their relatives have got there themselves rather than phoning an ambulance do sound like ambulance worthy emergencies, so that's muddying the waters and making it sound like some people think you should deal with most things yourself.

I don't know about your hospital but at ours there is a drop off place in the car park where you can stop for half an hour which would be long enough to get someone into A&E.

Yes we have a drop off place but it's at the main entrance not close to a&e, which is poor planning.

Btw I didn't really word my post well - I know DF clearly needed an ambulance this time but there's been incidents previously when we've taken him by car and struggled with him on arrival if there was only one of us. This might be why some people call ambulances rather than try and drive. I'm not saying it's fine to call them at the drop of a hat.

That's the whole point though, if they can get themselves there, then they don't need to phone an ambulance! They won't be seen any quicker at hospital unless they get taken straight to resus.

There probably are some who could but discharging medically fit seems key to getting system moving again

But they will have been seen by a paramedic!