Page 12 | To ask if you would pay for GP visits

justanotherhappyflunkie · 2023-01-12T11:36:05+00:00

Been talking with various friends who all agree they would rather pay a nominal sum to see a GP rather than the current system. I have lived in a country that does this (free for children, disabled people, discounts for beneficiaries and long term sickness) and it was great. Same day appointments, good range of doctors, quick referrals. The UK equivalent of this would be around £20 per visit. AIBU to suggest it is the system that could help the NHS? prepares for a flaming!

wormshuffled · 12/01/2023 16:37

I wouldn't support this, I would however support people being charged for missed appointments. My gym charges for missed classes, it makes people cancel in time for the slot to be used by someone else.

babsanderson · 12/01/2023 16:39

dollymixtured · 12/01/2023 16:22

Well it’s obviously not unlimited but very few people would need to see a GP multiple times in a month. For the average family that might need a few visits a year this would be a great service. The fact that you immediately jump to ‘unlimited’ in your mind is indicative of the problem we have which is that some people massively overuse the health service unnecessarily and others are very light users.

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So you pay £170 a month and get a few visits to a GP a year. Absolutely fine for basically healthy people. Not okay for those who actually need healthcare though.

ToWhitToWhoo · 12/01/2023 16:40

Yes, I would. There would, however. have to be exemptions for those on low incomes, and those with certain illnesses that require very frequent appointments.

Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 16:42

wormshuffled · 12/01/2023 16:37

I wouldn't support this, I would however support people being charged for missed appointments. My gym charges for missed classes, it makes people cancel in time for the slot to be used by someone else.

As long as there was a system at all surgeries that worked to cancel appointments.

The amount of times I had to cancel GP appointments for my dad on the day or the day before because he’d either been taken to hospital or decided to refuse to do and I couldn’t actually get though to anyone to let them know, despite repeatedly calling.

I’ve heard the same thing from countless people. Sometimes it’s not a no show, people just give up trying to get through to someone.

Havanananana · 12/01/2023 16:45

@Twiglets1 "calm down dear, the system works fine now with private dentists doesn't it, where they charge a certain amount and their customers pay it."

No. It doesn't work. Hunt totally destroyed NHS dentistry. Those who can afford it get reasonable dental care. Those who cannot afford private dentistry or who cannot access a NHS dentist are left to fend for themselves, with millions facing poor dental health the result. God help the UK if he's allowed to get away with destroying what's left of NHS healthcare in the same fashion.

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 16:52

babsanderson · 12/01/2023 16:15

@Twiglets1 Do you know the terrible state of many poor people's teeth?

yes, is that my fault in your opinion since you sound accusatory?

I wish more dentists could still be NHS but they can't because it became financially unsustainable. Sorry to say it but I think the health service is going the same way. It has been underfunded for so many years it is falling apart horribly. I'm seriously thinking about finding a local private practice where I just pay and go as I need treatment (like my dentist). I've supported the NHS all my life and still have the greatest respect for NHS workers. But the system is broken.

ToWhitToWhoo · 12/01/2023 16:54

Havanananana · 12/01/2023 16:45

@Twiglets1 "calm down dear, the system works fine now with private dentists doesn't it, where they charge a certain amount and their customers pay it."

No. It doesn't work. Hunt totally destroyed NHS dentistry. Those who can afford it get reasonable dental care. Those who cannot afford private dentistry or who cannot access a NHS dentist are left to fend for themselves, with millions facing poor dental health the result. God help the UK if he's allowed to get away with destroying what's left of NHS healthcare in the same fashion.

Private dentistry costs a lot more than £20 per visit, though. Even NHS dentists are usually not free.

Blossomtoes · 12/01/2023 16:54

But the system is broken.

Then the answer is to elect a government that would mend it, not collude with the one that broke it.

OopsAnotherOne · 12/01/2023 16:57

I would worry that the poorest in society would be most impacted by this as £20 is a lot for a family who are having to choose between heating and eating.

People who are down to their last few quid for the month will be less likely to get little but potentially serious things such as a small lump or a suspicious mole checked out as it might not seem important enough to spend £20 on, when so many other things are taking priority at that time.

Perhaps a scheme where you register your bank details with your GP and they take a fee of £20.00 which is then returned to you on attendance at your GP would mean that people are only charged if they don't attend their appointment. This would generate some extra income for the GP Surgery but would (hopefully) cut down people who just don't turn up to their appointments.

While it would make sense to exclude those such as children, those receiving UC, pensioners and people with pre-existing health conditions from this, there are still many people within the UK who don't fall into these categories but still simply couldn't afford £20 being taken from their account at certain times of the month.

The only way to fairly implement such a system would be to ensure it's means tested, meaning pensioners with larger assets, savings and pensions are expected to pay the deposit whereas the pensioners with a very small income would be exempt. At the end of the day, as long as the person in question attended their appointment, they would be refunded automatically so it would not be an "unfair" system unless you essentially treat the system "unfairly" by adding to the no-show statistics.

JusteanBiscuits · 12/01/2023 17:00

caringcarer · 12/01/2023 13:57

To those saying NHS is underfunded. You are wrong. It is funded to a good level but it is grossly mismanaged. Some GP's prescribe medication that can be bought over the counter very cheaply. Ibuprofen cost 34p on Aldi yet a prescription for it costs £8 to NHS. Some people who can't tolerate wheat get bread and even cakes on prescription. They can buy food without wheat at supermarket. Gay men who have a lot of casual sex with people they don't know can be prescribed PREP just in case a person they have sex with is HIV positive. They could be using a condom. PREP is very expensive. Hospitals as pend rediculous amounts on things like having a new light bulb which is done by contractor who charges 20/10 times more than having their own electrician/maintenance person would cost. They have over 450 health bosses on over £100k pa and dozens earning over £160k pa. Yet trusts are not meeting their performance targets, waiting list grow and Junior Doctors and Nurses are underpaid and have to work rediculous long shifts of 12 hours when likely to be tired and that is often when mistakes are made. The NHS needs a complete overhaul. People in hospital don't have to pay for their food. No reason why a person in hospital can't pay for their food. They would be paying for it if not in hospital. Too much money is spent on the pointless gender surgeries then four or five years down the line many of them want reversing. Other operations which are a choice rather than as medical requirement like circumcisions should be charged for and all UK citizens should have a national ID card. No card no healthcare unless paying up front. It is a NHS not an International HS. Rant over.

Do you wear an I <3 The Daily Mail badge??

Stop believing everything they write

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 17:01

Blossomtoes · 12/01/2023 16:54

But the system is broken.

Then the answer is to elect a government that would mend it, not collude with the one that broke it.

I'm not getting the opportunity to vote to change it right now though am I? Probably won't get a chance to vote all year.

In the meantime (& even assuming Labour could fix it which I have my doubts about now things are so bad but sure, prepared to give them a try) and to answer OPs question on this thread, Yes I would be prepared to pay £20 for a GP appointment.

DoraSpenlow · 12/01/2023 17:02

Not sure how it would work at our surgery. They currently have 5 GPs but the AskmyGP service has been suspended since before Christmas and they are only taking urgent cases because they say they are overwhelmed. I'm not sure how they would find the extra capacity just because people were paying £20 per appointment. And if they did suddenly find capacity it would bring into question the fact that they probably did have apppointments available all along.

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 17:04

OopsAnotherOne · 12/01/2023 16:57

I would worry that the poorest in society would be most impacted by this as £20 is a lot for a family who are having to choose between heating and eating.

People who are down to their last few quid for the month will be less likely to get little but potentially serious things such as a small lump or a suspicious mole checked out as it might not seem important enough to spend £20 on, when so many other things are taking priority at that time.

Perhaps a scheme where you register your bank details with your GP and they take a fee of £20.00 which is then returned to you on attendance at your GP would mean that people are only charged if they don't attend their appointment. This would generate some extra income for the GP Surgery but would (hopefully) cut down people who just don't turn up to their appointments.

While it would make sense to exclude those such as children, those receiving UC, pensioners and people with pre-existing health conditions from this, there are still many people within the UK who don't fall into these categories but still simply couldn't afford £20 being taken from their account at certain times of the month.

The only way to fairly implement such a system would be to ensure it's means tested, meaning pensioners with larger assets, savings and pensions are expected to pay the deposit whereas the pensioners with a very small income would be exempt. At the end of the day, as long as the person in question attended their appointment, they would be refunded automatically so it would not be an "unfair" system unless you essentially treat the system "unfairly" by adding to the no-show statistics.

People who currently qualify for free prescriptions could also qualify for free appointments with their GP.
But those who can afford to pay maybe should start paying as God knows, the NHS is in a dire financial state and the electorate has proved over and over again that people don't like paying high taxes.

lieselotte · 12/01/2023 17:05

1hyuny · 12/01/2023 11:37

I agree, the amount of appointments missed are ridiculous!! If we were charged then I bet they wouldn't miss appointments.

It used to be ridiculous. I doubt people miss face to face appointments now as they are so hard to get.

However, I would pay for a GP visit if it meant I could get a same day appointment for urgent issues and a routine appointment within a week or so. Or indeed an appointment at all.

lieselotte · 12/01/2023 17:07

I'm not sure how they would find the extra capacity just because people were paying £20 per appointment. And if they did suddenly find capacity it would bring into question the fact that they probably did have appointments available all along

I think there would be more capacity. For one thing, people wouldn't waste their time if they were paying for it. But also, money talks.

That said, there is a problem with NHS dentists. But you can see an optician easily enough.

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 17:08

DoraSpenlow · 12/01/2023 17:02

Not sure how it would work at our surgery. They currently have 5 GPs but the AskmyGP service has been suspended since before Christmas and they are only taking urgent cases because they say they are overwhelmed. I'm not sure how they would find the extra capacity just because people were paying £20 per appointment. And if they did suddenly find capacity it would bring into question the fact that they probably did have apppointments available all along.

If surgeries were getting lots of £20s each day then maybe they could afford to employ more staff - doctors, nurses or dispensing pharmacists, depending on the needs at that particular surgery.

babsanderson · 12/01/2023 17:10

There are not the staff to employ.
The only thing it would do is stop poorer people going to their GP with anything. They would just go to A and E instead. If I needed antibiotics I would go and sit in A and E for them.

chalkiegirl · 12/01/2023 17:10

Brefugee · 12/01/2023 15:28

they introduced this in Germany (you had to pay once per quarter) and it resulted in too much admin, not enough money coming in to make it worthwhile, and people didn't go to the doctor when they needed to because they couldn't afford it.

So it was scrapped.

What i think the most urgent thing the NHS needs right now is:

people to be more self-sufficient in recognising the symptoms of colds, and administering their own treatments that they can buy in the drugstore/chemist

use the pharmacist as well as going to the GP for minor ailments

not rushing to A&E as soon as they have an out of hours cold

knowing how to use the NHS hotline (101? 111?)

as far as possible not carrying on as though everything is ok when they have coughs, colds and worse (maybe more handwashing, masking up, not going to work if they can avoid it etc)

At the same time the NHS needs to try to standardise the systems/processes, GPs same.

there are no easy, and certainly no cheap, answers. Going private will help the individual but bottom line? it takes resources from the NHS, since it is the same doctors.

I agree with much of this. However, I'm suffering with a cold and cough at the moment, and toddled off to my local chemist to stock up on over the counter remedies. I was horrified to see completely empty shelves where these items were normally to be found.
On talking to the assistant I discovered that supply issues are causing this issue and that all the nearby pharmacies are having the same problem.
I have never encountered lack of such items before and I'm sure it's caused numerous people to want to see a GP when they'd have sorted themselves out before.

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 17:10

lieselotte · 12/01/2023 17:05

It used to be ridiculous. I doubt people miss face to face appointments now as they are so hard to get.

However, I would pay for a GP visit if it meant I could get a same day appointment for urgent issues and a routine appointment within a week or so. Or indeed an appointment at all.

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Lots of people do currently still miss appointments. I get a message from my surgery every month reminding people not to miss appointments and stating how many have done so that month - it's always dozens.

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 17:11

babsanderson · 12/01/2023 17:10

There are not the staff to employ.
The only thing it would do is stop poorer people going to their GP with anything. They would just go to A and E instead. If I needed antibiotics I would go and sit in A and E for them.

How does that make sense to go to A&E for antibiotics?

babsanderson · 12/01/2023 17:12

People miss dentist appointments that they do have to pay for.

babsanderson · 12/01/2023 17:15

@Twiglets1 I would not have to pay £20. Makes perfect sense.

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 17:21

babsanderson · 12/01/2023 17:15

@Twiglets1 I would not have to pay £20. Makes perfect sense.

I think you've lost the plot.

I thought you cared about the NHS but you would be advising people to go to A&E to avoid paying for a GP appointment when the proposal is that poorer people wouldn't have to pay for GP appointments anyway? It's attitudes like yours that have helped to contribute to the financial black hole mess that the NHS is it. With too many people abusing the system and taking doctors appointments/getting prescriptions rather than buy a packet of aspirin from the supermarket because why not? It's "free".

strongallowed · 12/01/2023 17:22

If surgeries were getting lots of £20s each day then maybe they could afford to employ more staff - doctors, nurses or dispensing pharmacists, depending on the needs at that particular surgery.

But there aren't any more staff? There's not loads of HCP sitting at home waiting for new contracts to appear there's no staff anywhere to fill jobs. A proportion of the public binging the NHS £20 here or there is going to cost as much in admin and there won't be any improvements.

This is not the incentive that will draw thousands of people to healthcare training....

onetwobucklemyshoes · 12/01/2023 17:29

Twiglets1 · 12/01/2023 17:21

I think you've lost the plot.

I thought you cared about the NHS but you would be advising people to go to A&E to avoid paying for a GP appointment when the proposal is that poorer people wouldn't have to pay for GP appointments anyway? It's attitudes like yours that have helped to contribute to the financial black hole mess that the NHS is it. With too many people abusing the system and taking doctors appointments/getting prescriptions rather than buy a packet of aspirin from the supermarket because why not? It's "free".

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? that's not what was said at all! It's realistic to acknowledge that a GP charge may disincentivise people from using primary care and this may result in them heading straight to A and E instead.

The NHS is not 'failing' because people are not buying their own aspirin. We have an ageing population. We have successfully increased lifespan but we have not caught up with quality of life / healthy years. More and more people have more and more chronic long-term conditions and require more complex treatments. We have a massive social care crisis resulting in a massive hospital bed crisis and downstream ambulance crisis. We massively lack both social care and healthcare staff. A tiny charge to a fraction of GP appointments is not going to solve that and, whilst encouraging appropriate use of services will help with the limited resources we have, it is again only a sticking plaster.