Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

£100 million to 'address past wrongs of slavery'

95 replies

Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 08:09

AIBU to think that the Anglican Church has lost it's mind?
Slavery was, as is (though the church isn't as interested in that) abhorrent. But how can you address historical wrongs by spending money?

OP posts:
Original poster
Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 09:07

I just think the money will end up in the hands of corrupt politicians.

OP posts:
Preggingswearingleggings · 12/01/2023 09:12

How can the UK possibly start giving money based on historical wrongs? I think the idea is ridiculous. Where would you stop? India and the trauma of partition? Ireland? Over one million died of famine in Ireland while food was being shipped to the UK. How does money put it right anyway? The British people now were not the same people alive at those times, so why should they be held accountable? I just think it's a stupid idea. Money won't put it right.

BabyOnBoard90 · 12/01/2023 09:18

Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 08:09

AIBU to think that the Anglican Church has lost it's mind?
Slavery was, as is (though the church isn't as interested in that) abhorrent. But how can you address historical wrongs by spending money?

Because a legacy is created by slavery. I thought this was common sense but just to spell it out for you, here's two scenarios:

  • Your great grandad was the son of a slavery plantation owner who inherited hundreds of millions, and the family continued to receive reparations from British government just up a decade ago.
  • your great grandad was the son of a slave. He inherited nothing but poverty from his parents. He lacked education, and systematic racism made upward social mobility near impossible.

Spending money to address the legacy left by slavery helps address this inequality.

BabyOnBoard90 · 12/01/2023 09:20

Also this money is a drop in the bucket of the money wasted faulty Covid gear and test/trace.

If you're so concerned about wasted money go campaign about that.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 12/01/2023 09:20

Ofcourseshecan · 12/01/2023 08:56

I agree. Slavery is still widespread across the world and it baffles me why this is largely ignored.

Show quote history

It’s ignored because taking action would be expensive, painful and difficult. None of this stopped the British in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries from almost single handedly putting a stop to the African Slave Trade, and , by no means incidentally, to the kidnapping and enslavement of English people from the South Coast to the slave markets of North Africa.

Today, however, we don’t want to upset the wealthy and powerful nations who still practice slavery.So instead we make pious noises about history.

KnickerlessParsons · 12/01/2023 09:45

What is your suggestion to address this historical wrong?

You can't address a wrong you didn't commit. You can make sure it never happens again though.
Slavery is currently still happening, all over the world. It's better that money is spent stopping it now rather than handwringing over what happened in the past.
What's done can't be undone.

KnickerlessParsons · 12/01/2023 09:45

What is your suggestion to address this historical wrong?

You can't address a wrong you didn't commit. You can make sure it never happens again though.
Slavery is currently still happening, all over the world. It's better that money is spent stopping it now rather than handwringing over what happened in the past.
What's done can't be undone.

KnickerlessParsons · 12/01/2023 09:46

What is your suggestion to address this historical wrong?

You can't address a wrong you didn't commit. You can make sure it never happens again though.
Slavery is currently still happening, all over the world. It's better that money is spent stopping it now rather than handwringing over what happened in the past.
What's done can't be undone.

SoupDragon · 12/01/2023 09:46

KnickerlessParsons · 12/01/2023 09:45

What is your suggestion to address this historical wrong?

You can't address a wrong you didn't commit. You can make sure it never happens again though.
Slavery is currently still happening, all over the world. It's better that money is spent stopping it now rather than handwringing over what happened in the past.
What's done can't be undone.

I agree completely.

money won't fix the wrongs of the past but it can fix the wrongs of the present.

Original poster
Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 09:48

Your great grandad was the son of a slavery plantation owner who inherited hundreds of millions, and the family continued to receive reparations from British government just up a decade ago.
your great grandad was the son of a slave. He inherited nothing but poverty from his parents. He lacked education, and systematic racism made upward social mobility near impossible.
This, to me, shows how impossible it is to solve. How do you deal with those who don't stay within their social 'grooves' - in 2 centuries there would have been intermarriage. Also, there were black people who owned slaves themselves.
All this points to is a vast amount of bureaucracy, digging through who is entitled to what, and taking a large slice of money themselves. Plus corrupt politicians and community leaders waiting for their share.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 12/01/2023 09:48

It’s from the church isn’t it? I don’t mind if not taxpayers

Original poster
Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 09:49

It’s from the church isn’t it? I don’t mind if not taxpayers
I hear what you say. I suppose if I wasn't anglican myself I wouldn't feel so annoyed.

OP posts:
Hawkins001 · 12/01/2023 11:01

Who were the main groups of people that begin the Atlantic slave trade?

Vastula · 12/01/2023 11:08

I’d rather the focus was on current slavery such as the thousands of Albanians being shipped over to run county lines

Alexandra2001 · 12/01/2023 11:14

Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 09:49

It’s from the church isn’t it? I don’t mind if not taxpayers
I hear what you say. I suppose if I wasn't anglican myself I wouldn't feel so annoyed.

As an Anglican.... don't you think the Church should use this money for e.g community projects in West Africa? lets say on health education employment?

The issue on corruption is very real... its likely Anglican church leaders will skim money off before it even leaves the UK.

Maxmin · 12/01/2023 11:18

Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 08:22

But do you think that money can address historical wrongs from 2 centuries ago?

Do you know that we were all paying taxes up until 2015 to repay slave owners for their lost of “property “. Are you okay with that?

2015!! Outrageous.

Original poster
Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 11:18

As an Anglican.... don't you think the Church should use this money for e.g community projects in West Africa? lets say on health education employment?
Not really. As I've said, have I any faith in the church putting in place desired outcomes (no). And how about those in Africa descended from those complicit in the Slave Trade?

OP posts:
Original poster
Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 11:20

Do you know that we were all paying taxes up until 2015 to repay slave owners for their lost of “property “. Are you okay with that?
if it's OK, I'd rather discuss the idea that £100 million, taken from a church that's strapped for money, can usefully be used to correct historical problems.

OP posts:
takealettermsjones · 12/01/2023 11:23

KnickerlessParsons · 12/01/2023 09:46

What is your suggestion to address this historical wrong?

You can't address a wrong you didn't commit. You can make sure it never happens again though.
Slavery is currently still happening, all over the world. It's better that money is spent stopping it now rather than handwringing over what happened in the past.
What's done can't be undone.

Education is how we make sure it doesn't happen again, though. Part of that fund is going towards historical research and education.

Kabalagala · 12/01/2023 11:26

The impact of slavery is still very much alive though. Racial inequality is passed through generations. Systemic racism. The windrush scandal - directly affected the descendants of slaves. It's not ancient history and there is still much to do to right wrongs and level the playing field.

Dotjones · 12/01/2023 11:30

There should be no reparations. Slavery was rife throughout the world and the problem with reparations is that they only seem to focus on certain areas.

Before the Europeans came to Africa slavery was already widespread there. When the Europeans came to collect slaves, they were reliant on the local slave industry to source slaves for export. There was no widespread system of Europeans heading inland to catch people for export, Europeans tried to minimise the amount of time they were in Africa because it was so unhealthy (about 10% of European crew would die per month they were in African territory or waters).

Europeans didn't bring slavery to Africa, and the transatlantic trade couldn't have existed without the work of the indigenous slave industry. Therefore if compensation is due for past wrongs, first of all the descendents of African slavers need to be made to pay up. Then perhaps look towards the Middle East, because the African slave model was imported from that region around 800-1200 AD. Oh, and Italy should pay the UK damages because the Romans enslaved Britons.

Personally I think this is all ridiculous - it would be better to focus on stamping out modern slavery - 1 in 200 people alive today are defined as being slaves. People don't inherit guilt, but they can change the status quo.

Maxmin · 12/01/2023 12:10

Dotjones · 12/01/2023 11:30

There should be no reparations. Slavery was rife throughout the world and the problem with reparations is that they only seem to focus on certain areas.

Before the Europeans came to Africa slavery was already widespread there. When the Europeans came to collect slaves, they were reliant on the local slave industry to source slaves for export. There was no widespread system of Europeans heading inland to catch people for export, Europeans tried to minimise the amount of time they were in Africa because it was so unhealthy (about 10% of European crew would die per month they were in African territory or waters).

Europeans didn't bring slavery to Africa, and the transatlantic trade couldn't have existed without the work of the indigenous slave industry. Therefore if compensation is due for past wrongs, first of all the descendents of African slavers need to be made to pay up. Then perhaps look towards the Middle East, because the African slave model was imported from that region around 800-1200 AD. Oh, and Italy should pay the UK damages because the Romans enslaved Britons.

Personally I think this is all ridiculous - it would be better to focus on stamping out modern slavery - 1 in 200 people alive today are defined as being slaves. People don't inherit guilt, but they can change the status quo.

It’s not about the origins of slavery or whether it was widespread. Britain benefited hugely. It would not be what it is today and at its height without slavery. Slavery was brutal and the laws and legacy of slavery continued to deny free people from equal opportunities. To add salt to injury, the descendants of slavery were paying compensation to slave owners up until 2015.

What is nonsensical about reparations exactly?

Kabalagala · 12/01/2023 12:37

Dotjones · 12/01/2023 11:30

There should be no reparations. Slavery was rife throughout the world and the problem with reparations is that they only seem to focus on certain areas.

Before the Europeans came to Africa slavery was already widespread there. When the Europeans came to collect slaves, they were reliant on the local slave industry to source slaves for export. There was no widespread system of Europeans heading inland to catch people for export, Europeans tried to minimise the amount of time they were in Africa because it was so unhealthy (about 10% of European crew would die per month they were in African territory or waters).

Europeans didn't bring slavery to Africa, and the transatlantic trade couldn't have existed without the work of the indigenous slave industry. Therefore if compensation is due for past wrongs, first of all the descendents of African slavers need to be made to pay up. Then perhaps look towards the Middle East, because the African slave model was imported from that region around 800-1200 AD. Oh, and Italy should pay the UK damages because the Romans enslaved Britons.

Personally I think this is all ridiculous - it would be better to focus on stamping out modern slavery - 1 in 200 people alive today are defined as being slaves. People don't inherit guilt, but they can change the status quo.

That's a stupid playground argument.
But she started ittttt!

Original poster
Sausagenbacon · 12/01/2023 12:43

I'd like to know exactly how the previous 2 posters would direct the money without wasting it. As I've said before, why pay money to Africa when you can't distinguish between the slaves and the (black) enslavers?
Education? Like everyone doesn't know that Slavery is a Bad Thing. The thing is, there are many professionals who are very happy to fill these roles, and are very adept at making a case for them. especially in the c of e.

OP posts:
nancy75 · 12/01/2023 12:45

BabyOnBoard90 · 12/01/2023 09:18

Because a legacy is created by slavery. I thought this was common sense but just to spell it out for you, here's two scenarios:

  • Your great grandad was the son of a slavery plantation owner who inherited hundreds of millions, and the family continued to receive reparations from British government just up a decade ago.
  • your great grandad was the son of a slave. He inherited nothing but poverty from his parents. He lacked education, and systematic racism made upward social mobility near impossible.

Spending money to address the legacy left by slavery helps address this inequality.

Show quote history

the family continued to receive reparations from British government just up a decade ago

That's not actually right. The British govt at the time took out a huge loan to pay off the slave owners and it is the loan that was still being repaid. The families weren't still getting money.