To suggest the government incentivising downsizing

[PoinsettiaPosturing]

There seems to be a couple of issues discussed very frequently here that could be potentially helped (not solved) by the government incentivising downsizing for home owners.

There's a significant issue of property availability to buy and rent, and a huge number of older people who are single/couples in 3/4/5 bed houses. This means that younger generations are stuck in their starter homes and priced out of long term homes.
MIL & FIL have a 4 bed detached and constantly complain about the cost to heat and maintain it, but hate that it'll cost them loads in stamp duty, moving fees & solicitors costs to downsize.

Perhaps Rishi could incentivise downsizing, so if you reduce the number of bedrooms when you move it over 60, then you're relieved of stamp duty, and perhaps receive a £2,000 (debatable) grant towards moving costs and expenses.

There are also constant complaints that older people stay in their homes long after they 'should' based on significant care needs, decreasing mobility and long term repair issues.

The incentive could encourage people moving to smaller houses, flats, retirement communities or even combining households with family members.

This would hopefully:

1. Free up larger properties for families/younger people wanting to upsize
2. Hopefully mean older people have less heating and energy expenses
3. Encourage older people to move into properties more suitable to reduced mobility & care needs longer term
4. Mean older properties are restored/better maintained

I appreciate there are loads of people who want to stay in their family home until the end, and this wouldn't change that view point, but maybe a social movement towards older people reducing the size of their homes would create a bit of social contagion where it's more openly discussed?

Also, house builders could be encouraged to build more bungalows/smaller homes specifically for this scheme which perhaps are built with stair lifts in mind etc.

YABU - this will never work, ridiculous suggestion

YANBU - this has legs, you should go into politics

I want to sell and move into a park home....ignoring all the pit falls! ...it sounds ideal. Small community, manageable sized home, on one level, detached property. Someone should build little communities of bungalows.

Homes should never be an investment. The government should introduce capital gains taxes on main residences. That will get lots of people moving asap to cash in before the deadline.
Council taxes should be higher for under occupied properties. Let’s say 2 persons living in a 4 bedroom house. Exemption for 2 years, then it kicks in. Some countries do this.
With these types of policies people stop treating homes as an investment. U.K. government has for far too long encouraged high house prices. It doesn’t work. Causes social issues and unfairness.

My DPs need to move for mobility reasons. They want a bungalow with a garden. They absolutely don’t want an apartment. Bungalows are premium priced because they’re in such short supply. They don’t need incentives to move, just a wider range of housing stock in the place they want to live.

YANBU, sounds like a sensible proposal, OP. I think it’s a better proposition than most politicians have thought up!

Some people have an extra bedroom because they have shared custody of a child.
Or they run a business from home, or have a carer etc.
Or they just have lots of stuff (that would be me).
Why should they pay extra council tax? I have 25% discount on account of it being me alone in my home. It would make no sense to then charge more back because I am alone in a 3 bed house. One of the rooms is so small, it would not even be a decent nursery.

OP "I appreciate there are loads of people who want to stay in their family home until the end, and this wouldn't change that view point, but maybe a social movement towards older people reducing the size of their homes would create a bit of social contagion where it's more openly discussed?"

social contagion i.e. even more people whining about elderly folk staying in their homes?

See my last.
A good lawyer will always be able to er, navigate the rules 😉

Yes, but you have choices, i.e. if the private home turns out to be crap, you can move to another. When it's council financed, you have to put up and shut up!

Three bed bungalows in my area have asking prices of over £25-50k more than the asking price of my four bed new build and they sell for well over asking price within a matter of days. They have almost all without exception needed a lot of work to bring them anywhere near up to date as the ageing owners have over time become less able to maintain them. Think, new electrics and modern plumbing throughout just for starters. That’s if they’re not snapped up by developers and demolished and replaced with several smaller houses or flats crammed onto the same site.

Bungalows might have a smaller footprint, albeit with a larger garden than average, but smaller in this instance doesn’t mean cheaper, just the opposite.

I’d love to move into something smaller and more suitable while I am still young enough and in relatively good enough health to do so but I will not be swapping my four bed for a McCarthy and Stone type flat any time soon. And that’s quite sad; both for me and for the families who might like to live in a home like this.

It just comes back to what everyone else has said - developers are not building the different kind of homes that people throughout the generations and at different life stages need.

But however good the lawyer or accountant is, they can't change history. If the facts show that no rent was paid, or the rent was under-valued, then that's that, no amount of "navigating" can change the facts. It's a matter of fact what was on the bank statements, etc.

Unless of course you mean lying and forgery which no regulated profession would risk their career for just for a bit of fee income!

I personally think that equity is going to end up being tapped into by default for many.

You need an operation but it's an 18 month waiting list unless you private. You want decent care in the home you need to self fund as the council can't provide etc.

This.

What about young people, students, graduates, single parents, singles? They need small houses too so would be priced out if there was a huge demand for small apartments/houses.

Our bungalow is 5,000 sq. ft of land with a 1,500 sq. ft building on it. Not quite sure what it would take to go to a 1,350 4-bed house in a 2,500 sq. ft plot which is what we have been told is "premium" new build housing. And that's before the fact you could only get one roller skate in the garage. Two and you're out of luck.

I think regulating leaseholds is the elephant in the room. It still seems slightly bonkers that many people never own the land they live on.

My folks downsized in their mid-60’s. We joke it was partly so none of the children could move back! Now in a 2-bed bungalow with a small garden/outdoor space. V different to the house they used to have. They are late 70’s now and still in good health but no longer have the energy for ‘gardening’ beyond maintenance, or cleaning vast number of rooms, plus cost of heating etc. so all perceived benefits sometimes become a millstone.

They’re v happy. It’s stressful to move at any time of life but they said they wouldn’t have wanted to go through it in their 70’s. They had their late 60’s to get it how they wanted with home improvements and are now just chilling. My siblings and I are so grateful they did it and were lucky to find a bungalow in the same town so still near friends and transport links. They also said (sorry to say), many of their friends have died so their social life is very different from what it was even 5 years ago.

No easy answers either way. My next door neighbour is well into her late 80’s and has only just moved into a care facility. Until COVID she rented 2 of her spare bedrooms to international students, for income and company. The house has been renovated and will shortly be let to a family.

I wouldn't want to see taxpayers' money spent on this! If someone is downsizing then they are usually going to be beneftting financially from it..

Who says rent hasn't been paid?
As I say, rules can be navigated if you know how.

It's not that simple (currently assisting someone)

Issues
4 bed houses, same price as 2 or 3 bed bungalows in some areas

Some people don't want to move from their family & friends network, even a few miles !

Bungalows may be cheaper 100s of miles away, but people don't want to relocate

Some people don't want to buy " doer upper" or slightly out of trend properties

Some people don't want change

Cost, time, effort

It would take a lot more than zero stamp duty and £2k towards moving costs to incentivise me to move out of our five bedroom house.
The thing about smaller houses is that they are, um, smaller.
They don't just have fewer bedrooms, they also have smaller living rooms, kitchens, dining rooms and gardens.
Just because my children have flown the nest doesn't mean I want to give up entertaining.
And I want somewhere for my kids, their partners and my grandchildren when I eventually have some to stay. There were 9 of us in the house over Christmas - it was great!
Couldn't do that in a three bed semi.

Plus which, we've worked bloody hard for this house, and I'm going to enjoy it in my retirement.

So paying a bedroom tax on your own house?

Thars nice. Taxed on salary, taxed on stamp duty. Fuck off with your extra tax. I’ve paid millions of taxes.

Which countries do this? @Aleaiactaest

We talk about downsizing sometime in the nearish future, but we haven't seen anything appealing in a suitable area that we'd consider living in that would release a significant amount of equity. We like our current house a great deal, the view is wonderful and we've mostly finished the renovation. A few rooms need repainting, and we plan to redo the outdoor paving in the spring. So I can see why it sounds good for families, but there's nothing in it for us.

I’ve paid millions of taxes.

Millions 🤔

Great idea. I love in a 6 bedroom (4 bedroom with additional 2 bedroom loft conversion) 3 bathroom and a downstairs cloakroom. At the moment it is me, DH, foster son and adult son who is moving out buying his own home in April. So after April there will be 3 of us rattling around. I want to downsize to a 3 bedroom bungalow with still good sized garden. DH refuses as cites stamp duty, solicitors fees, estate agents fees, and he keeps saying he can't face the prospect of getting rid of beds from 3 bedrooms plus chests of drawers and other furniture as a downsize would mean 1 reception room less too. He likes his big garden, garage and work shed. If there was incentive like no stamp duty and solicitors fees he would have no argument to stop me.

Increase council tax for those that live in houses with more bedrooms than people. A 25% increase per unoccupied bedroom.