To suggest the government incentivising downsizing

[PoinsettiaPosturing]

There seems to be a couple of issues discussed very frequently here that could be potentially helped (not solved) by the government incentivising downsizing for home owners.

There's a significant issue of property availability to buy and rent, and a huge number of older people who are single/couples in 3/4/5 bed houses. This means that younger generations are stuck in their starter homes and priced out of long term homes.
MIL & FIL have a 4 bed detached and constantly complain about the cost to heat and maintain it, but hate that it'll cost them loads in stamp duty, moving fees & solicitors costs to downsize.

Perhaps Rishi could incentivise downsizing, so if you reduce the number of bedrooms when you move it over 60, then you're relieved of stamp duty, and perhaps receive a £2,000 (debatable) grant towards moving costs and expenses.

There are also constant complaints that older people stay in their homes long after they 'should' based on significant care needs, decreasing mobility and long term repair issues.

The incentive could encourage people moving to smaller houses, flats, retirement communities or even combining households with family members.

This would hopefully:

1. Free up larger properties for families/younger people wanting to upsize
2. Hopefully mean older people have less heating and energy expenses
3. Encourage older people to move into properties more suitable to reduced mobility & care needs longer term
4. Mean older properties are restored/better maintained

I appreciate there are loads of people who want to stay in their family home until the end, and this wouldn't change that view point, but maybe a social movement towards older people reducing the size of their homes would create a bit of social contagion where it's more openly discussed?

Also, house builders could be encouraged to build more bungalows/smaller homes specifically for this scheme which perhaps are built with stair lifts in mind etc.

YABU - this will never work, ridiculous suggestion

YANBU - this has legs, you should go into politics

Not RTFT so sorry if this has been mentioned - suppose we (2 people in a large house) sold to move to a bungalow. Would we be obliged to ensure a family moved in? Why should we turn down an offer from Mr and Mrs Childless in say their later 40s and hang on for Mr and Mrs 3 Children? If doing so meant we lost the bungalow. No-one can dictate that we choose a buyer based on need. And what if Mr and Mrs Childless are POC and we turn down their offer? (This is a very white area). Good idea in theory OP but impractical n practice.

That only works if there are alternatives for people. Its already been discussed that there is a lack of suitable smaller properties for downsizers to move to. None of the new estates being built in my area have any one or two bedroom properties. In the existing housing stock smaller suitable properties are rare as hens teeth

Out of interest a lot of people have mentioned the lack of bungalows and need for no stairs, but obviously flats have no stairs too.

Is it the detachednes that appeals too? I get than bungalows take up space, but you very rarely see modern bungalows that are in terraces with small gardens. I can see these would cost similar to a bigger house as plot, foundations and roof are the same but not sure they would cost more.

@Spendonsend

Flats do have stairs though. We lived in a 3rd floor flat so not ideal for elderly people.

Also it was horrific. Noise from the left, right, above AND below. I will never live in a flat again that’s for sure. Hideous.

there's no way i'm moving from a lovely 5 bed detached house to a flat, just for the convenience of other people - or not till i need sheltered housing.

apart from the noise aspects, i like my private garden and i have a dog. And rooms in flats tend to be quite small - especially kitchens.

Lots of flats are ground floor or have lifts.

I was just trying to gauge if it was the neighbours that were off putting as terraced bungalow wouldnt help much. I guess noone above.
But iltimatley if you want a big plot of land with big foundations and a big roof it has to be paid for.

I wouldn't live in a flat. Noise from all sides and no private outside space. Most are leasehold with service charges etc.

There is surely a middle ground between flats and big plots of land with no neighbours

Noise problem in flats - you’re either in the top flat having to tip toe around to avoid complaints by the neighbour below, or you’re the neighbour below, being disturbed by bangs and thuds from above

Bungalows are usually freehold, so all payments are within your control, no unaffordable increases in service charges or demands that you fork out for roof repairs

Well thats what I was wondering. Would terraces of bungalows help. Freehold, small garden, no one above or below. I just dont ever see them built but maybe people used to detached houses want detached and the problem with bungalow is a 2 bed has the same footprint as a 4bed house because its on one floor.

Which freebies would they be? My husband is 64, we get no freebies from anyone. Just pay lots of taxes and insurance. Already you are no longer paying prescription charges, soon you will get free bus pass, winter fuel allowance. You probably get reduced entry to stately homes and other attractions. OK, it doesn’t add up to a lot in money terms, since if you are paying al lot of tax and won’t use some of these.

and of course you’re still getting the freebies the rest of us get, rubbish collection, security in your home and when you travel around, health care etc

@Spendonsend
My DM lives in a semi detached bungalow with a small garden. There are a few in her town like this. It’s small but she’s very old so it suited her. She waited 9 months to get it though as basically you wait for the owners to die or move into a home.

Regarding housing developments. There are very many mixed housing developments. It’s just untrue for anyone to say they are all 5 bedrooms. Plenty will
have social housing too. The new developments by Housing Associations in villages tend to be for families or starter homes because research and waiting lists show that’s the need. Many older people stay put and convert their ground floor to accommodate their needs or get a stair lift. It’s often a better solution than moving.

The reason terraced bungalows are not a thing is size. I had a small terraced house with 2 bedrooms. It was 550 Sq ft. So yes, tiny! Halve that for a bungalow and you have 275 sq ft. You really would be living in a shoe box. Even if you could stretch to half a slightly bigger terraced house, it is still small by anyone’s standards. The garden was tiny too. I don’t think people realise how small modern houses are. So unless people are prepared to pay for a double plot to get, say, 550 sq ft, it’s a non starter. That’s why you don’t see them. It’s about making best use of the land and bungalows don’t. Also the cost of building is disproportionately higher. You do need foundations and a roof. In-between is a bit cheaper but to get the same sq ft as a house, it’s not any different at all.

@MereDintofPandiculation
I love your definition of freebies! House security? How? Rubbish collection ? That’s Council tax!

However I do think many older people have made a great deal of money via housing price increases and the old don’t need any more perks. The young need them far more. I say that as someone over 65 and so is DH. The older in society can come across as greedy and oblivious to the needs of others. If people can downsize, and want to, they should. Manipulation of the housing market is difficult and probably impossible.

and of course you’re still getting the freebies the rest of us get, rubbish collection, security in your home and when you travel around, health care etc

These aren’t freebies. This is why we pay council tax and tax.

I think it’s a really good idea to brainstorm ideas on this.

I’m not sure if I would support removing stamp duty though as it just again I suppose supports the idea that it is the younger generation expected to pay for everything. A younger family upsizing to a small 3 bed would pay stamp whereas an older couple downsizing to the same 3 bed wouldn’t, just because they happened to own a larger house which the young family may never, ever be able to afford.

My other thought is that house prices have gone up so much - particularly, post COVID, for family sizes homes with gardens at the expense of flats - so the increase in equity likely exceeds they stamp duty they would incur anyway. If this increase wasn’t enough to tempt them to move (and obviously 2020/21 was the perfect time to sell a house, even in not that great condition, to plenty of people desperate for space / a garden) then I’m not sure the government needs to sweeten the deal even more…

But yes all ideas are good because the system does seem a bit broken.

I think much smaller blocks of well built flats in good and convenient locations would help with literally 6 in a block on Two floors only , patios on the ground floor flats - good balconies on the 1st floor flats and make them for over45s - that would widen the marketplace when it comes to selling and help keep service charges down. Make them all at least 2 bed and 850sq feet with a separate kitchen and lounge and 2 equal bedrooms with storeage - not every post 60 couple contemplating downsizing wants to live in what feels like a top notch nursing home, except with your own flat . We aren't building anything that a lot of older people would downsize too. They don't like huge developments that look like student halls ,no bungalows due to costings, and many don't want houses because of stairs - park homes? Many worry about deterioration and in good locations aren't that cheap either. I think apartments are where there can be a bit more flexibility and new builds at the moment tend to be catering for 20 somethings

Here's a good example of the sort of thing I mentioned below that I think would work for many- This one though has a very nice garden too and is a rental

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/130418063#/?channel=RES_LET

It's true that they are not freebies, instead they are funded collectively through taxation!

A younger family upsizing to a small 3 bed would pay stamp whereas an older couple downsizing to the same 3 bed wouldn’t

Yes they would @Wishawisha . Why would you think that the older couple wouldn't?

Because that’s exactly what the OP proposed? It’s a hypothetical scenario.

Perhaps Rishi could incentivise downsizing, so if you reduce the number of bedrooms when you move it over 60, then you're relieved of stamp duty, and perhaps receive a £2,000 (debatable) grant towards moving costs and expenses.

Older people are already being incentivised to move out through additional costs of things like fuel.

I would like to see government incentives increase by penalising people who have a lot more space than they need.

So for example at the moment if you are a single person living in a place you get council tax reduction. This should only be allowed if you have three bedrooms or less, or a ratio of sqr ft to person of less than x.

Also, I would like to see stuff like fuel subsidies to larger properties end and also winter fuel payments.

Liz truss has destroyed this possibility. Falling house prices means it's a bad time to downsize despite the housing shortage

So you are deliberately conspiring with your children to avoid tax? They can investigate without time limit and I wouldn't be surprised if they tightened the rules as the country is becoming more short of money.
Apart from that, why do you think this is a reasonable and moral course of action? Are you expecting everyone else's children to pay for you and look after you in old age while you avoid a tax bill that others pay?

DH and I are in our 60’s and would love to downsize. We don’t need any financial incentive, we are willing to throw away all of the stuff we have accumulated and would be happy to pay for hotels when our adult children visit.
Why aren’t we doing it then? Because there are literally no suitable properties to buy. The small ones have steep stairs or are in the middle of nowhere or have huge gardens.
I currently live in a large village and a piece of land at the centre of the village recently became available for building. It would have been ideal for small retirement properties close to shops, doctors etc. Instead the builders put more four bedroom detached on there.

Ah, sorry..I hadn't re-read the OP since yesterday and my memory is rubbish.

What we need is a massive house building surge. But it won't happen because no one wants to live next to a huge new estate and developers want to maximise profits with housing that isn't aimed at downsizers. There is literally nowhere to downsize to in my locality.