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Original poster

Third of England’s teachers who qualified in last decade ‘have left profession’: DfE data

299 replies

sunnydaytoday0 · 09/01/2023 16:53

www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jan/09/third-of-englands-teachers-who-qualified-in-last-decade-have-left-profession

Nearly a third of teachers who qualified in the last decade have since left the profession, according to Labour analysis that has been released as the party attempts to shift the political focus on to education.

With the results of strike ballots by teaching unions due in the coming days, Labour intends to use a Commons vote this week to push their plan to impose VAT on private school fees, which they say would help pay for new teachers in the state sector.

According to a Labour analysis of Department for Education statistics, of just under 270,000 teachers who qualified in England between 2011 and 2020, more than 81,000 have since left the profession, or three in 10 of the total.

Why didn't Sunak make sorting out the absolute crisis in staffing in education one of his New Year promises?

OP posts:
Clarabellawilliamson · 09/01/2023 18:53

There's lots of people here saying it isn't the kids...sometimes it is! This is my 15th year and I just don't think I can be arsed to deal with the behaviour any more. Last years timetable nearly broke me!

Masses of cash would make all sorts of things easier- proper support for the kids that need it for a start.

Newgirls · 09/01/2023 18:58

My friends who have left are doing well with online tutoring etc

the government need to make in-school jobs better not worse - there are other jobs out there 🤷‍♀️

also yes Sunak has no idea what he’s doing

Forever42 · 09/01/2023 19:04

It beggars belief that a wealthy country wouldn't prioritise investment in education. If you want innovation, research and development, productivity etc, you need a well-educated population. A small elite of privately educated people and a huge number of poorly educated serfs does not make for economic success in a country with no manufacturing industry to speak of.

Aishah231 · 09/01/2023 19:10

I think pay is a huge factor in retention. It's hard to live on a teacher's salary unless your other half is also on a good wage.

Chevyimpala67 · 09/01/2023 19:10

mumda · 09/01/2023 17:41

A friend has worked various schools after giving up her once lovely job.
The children are horrible and although it only takes one to ruin a class she says there's not enough support from the head. The nice kids suffer whilst the teacher is writing up incidents because the two parents do not want their children moving class. The issue is maybe the head not insisting.

I don't understand why it's this bad at primary but remember my son's secondary school experience was mostly marred by the kinetic learners.
Kinetic etc has apparently been discredited.

Bring back the cane even if it only means sending the naughty kids to stand outside the heads office all day.

Waiting for your next Ofsted inspection also sounds horrible.

You think beating children is the answer?
Fucking hell

Onnabugeisha · 09/01/2023 19:13

sunnydaytoday0 · 09/01/2023 17:49

To help anyone else that might have interpreted the headline stats as saying 70% of teachers still being in the job a decade later:

This graph is very telling. This data is from about 5 years ago but it shows the clear long term trend.. . And the fact the the lines on the left hand side are getting more and more to the left is definitely NOT a good sign, it shows the retention is not just bad but progressively getting WORSE.

Your graph is retention in a state funded school, not the profession of teaching as it includes those who left to join other U.K. education sectors.

“36,300 teachers left the state-funded sector in 2020/21, up by 4,000 since last year but otherwise lower than previous years. This represents less than 1 in 10 (8%) of all qualified teachers. The majority (88%) left due to leaving the state-funded sector in England, for example due to a change of career or joining other UK education sectors.”
explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-workforce-in-england

For example private school teaching jobs are more selective and prefer teachers with experience, so the state funded sector literally feeds into the private funded sector.

ShellyOverSeas · 09/01/2023 19:16

Tories...

Making the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Original poster
sunnydaytoday0 · 09/01/2023 19:24

Onnabugeisha · 09/01/2023 19:13

Your graph is retention in a state funded school, not the profession of teaching as it includes those who left to join other U.K. education sectors.

“36,300 teachers left the state-funded sector in 2020/21, up by 4,000 since last year but otherwise lower than previous years. This represents less than 1 in 10 (8%) of all qualified teachers. The majority (88%) left due to leaving the state-funded sector in England, for example due to a change of career or joining other UK education sectors.”
explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-workforce-in-england

For example private school teaching jobs are more selective and prefer teachers with experience, so the state funded sector literally feeds into the private funded sector.

Show quote history

So? The terrible retention of teachers is bad but it's even more of a problem if it's disproportionally worse in schools in more disadvantaged areas.

And the stats around the covid years have to be put into context as some didn't want to move jobs in those uncertain times. Whereas now things seem to be getting back to the long term trend..

Number of graduates in teacher training in England at ‘catastrophic’ level
www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jan/09/third-of-englands-teachers-who-qualified-in-last-decade-have-left-profession

Teacher Vacancy Numbers See Steepest Rise in Over a Decade
www.teachingpersonnel.com/tp-posts/2022-6/teacher-vacancy-numbers-see-steepest-rise-in-over-a-decade

OP posts:
Original poster
sunnydaytoday0 · 09/01/2023 19:25

First link of those two should be:
www.theguardian.com/education/2022/dec/01/number-graduates-teacher-training-england-catastrophic-level

OP posts:
toocold54 · 09/01/2023 19:38

My main reason for leaving was number crunching data etc and it having less and less to do with the children

I completely agree.

I left teaching as the workload was just insane.

I love being in the classroom with teens, I don’t mind lesson planning or marking either but it’s everything else that goes with it that I absolutely cannot stand.

I specialise in SEND and SEMH so behaviour isn’t really an issue for me but I know it’s a big issue for others.

My colleague came out crying one day and decided to hand her notice in as she said why is she coming to work every day to be abused and mocked by the students, then going home to do work and stress about getting it done in time and then coming back in the next day to have it happen all over again.

Teachers are of course very lucky that they get the holidays off but I feel that that is used as an excuse to constantly add to the workload and if they moan someone pipes up about how lucky they are to have the holidays off.

Not many jobs expect you to work through your breaks and carry on working after your work hours, for such crap pay.

One of my colleagues left to take a job in Lidl which worked out as the same pay as teaching and they actually have more free time due to finishing at set times.

FestiveAF · 09/01/2023 19:42

He pays £33,150 as a day pupil and £44,100 for his child’s education if she’s boarding per year. I’m sure there’s no problem with them finding good teachers for his child.

Greywhippet · 09/01/2023 19:50

It’s pay, professional status, endless slagging from the media, parents who think they are entitled to 24/7 email access for every little thing, workload, behaviour of some students. Also add in the mad policies and practices of some multi academy trusts and/or senior leaders. All these factors combine to strip the joy out of the profession.

1234512345Meh · 09/01/2023 19:52

venusandmars · 09/01/2023 17:00

I'm not doubting that education is in a terrible position, but I wonder what 'left the profession' actually means / how it is measured.

Is it people who have left teaching to go and work in other professions? Does the figure include those who have left to be SAHPs for a period?

There’s a massive issue with teachers leaving once they have children. The childcare costs are crazy (as they are for all) but there’s also the inflexibility of teaching and a heavy workload that many don’t want/can’t balance with their families. It’s perceived as a family friendly profession but it often isn’t.

The MTPT project has some good statistics on this.

CaptainMyCaptain · 09/01/2023 19:54

It used to be family friendly before the hours before and after school got longer and longer. It worked for me in the 80s but wouldn't work now.

rosesinmygarden · 09/01/2023 19:54

I recently returned to teaching (a very part time job). I'm on a fixed term contract and after 2 days in school I've already made the decision that I'll be leaving at the end of the contract. I'll do a decent job and help the kids in my class but I'm not staying.

I have 25 years experience and am teaching a class of 20 in a 'nice' school. The workload is ridiculous and the way teachers are treated by SLT, parents, ofsted etc. means it's just not an attractive job, even to someone who genuinely loves teaching.

ClaudiusTheGod · 09/01/2023 19:59

mnahmnah · 09/01/2023 18:00

I’ve been teaching and mentoring trainee teachers for over 20 years. I have seen so many amazing colleagues quit in the last few years. None of them left the profession because of the students.

The other part of the problem is the quality of people training to be teachers. I’m gobsmacked by some of the people they let onto the course and we have to train up. So even though they might pass the course, they are unlikely to cope with the reality of a teaching job afterwards and quit.

Yes. Trainee teachers who can’t even do what they are meant to teach. Trainees who are unable to tell you why a quarter is a smaller fraction than a third. Trainees who tell pupils that ‘you done amazing’.

Fairislefandango · 09/01/2023 20:00

@Muddlingmiddling it's not because of the children! It's workload.

It's both imo. Personally I could deal with one of those, but not both. Since September I've been in a lovely girls' grammar school with virtually no behaviour issues. Workload still exhausting, but having lovely, cooperative kids makes everything better - it's full-on, but morale is so much higher than in most schools I've worked in. I'm 51. I will never teach in another school.

sallywinter · 09/01/2023 20:12

🙋🏼‍♀️ one of the statistic (I think… just about made it to ten years in role.)

After paying for childcare (one child) my take home pay would have been tiny. I also wanted more flexibility with being able to attend her sports day, picking her up from school sometimes, etc.

I loved the job and would do it again for better pay and more flexible working.

CremeEggThief · 09/01/2023 20:17

I'm another one who thought it was closer to 50% leave within 5 years.

Original poster
sunnydaytoday0 · 09/01/2023 20:26

CremeEggThief · 09/01/2023 20:17

I'm another one who thought it was closer to 50% leave within 5 years.

Give it time..

OP posts:
Shinyandnew1 · 09/01/2023 20:55

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 09/01/2023 20:56

DaphneBlue · 09/01/2023 17:33

DD qualified two years ago (secondary English). She's already decided that being an LSA is better for her because although the pay is less, the stress and worry and general conditions of teaching is not worth the relatively small bump in salary.

She says she'll return to it if and when things get better but for now it's too much. The staff shortages at her school are so bad she's called on to teach most days anyway, as she's the only LSA with a teaching qualification. Often she's asked to take lessons that aren't even her subject.

I'm also secondary English, now tutoring in a PRU. Whenever I do supply I get offered a job. That's not an exaggeration. They're so desperate that if you've got a head and two legs and can turn up on time, you get offered a job. It's madness. I'm registered with four agencies and for the last 18 months or so I'm offered work every day, often by all four agencies and very often they won't take no for an answer and ring back pleading with me, even when my reasons for not working are insurmountable (sick kid, no car that day and the school is 30 miles away etc). Husband is also a teacher and his school is desperate for teachers, especially in maths and English, but they just can't recruit.

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 09/01/2023 20:56

DaphneBlue · 09/01/2023 17:33

DD qualified two years ago (secondary English). She's already decided that being an LSA is better for her because although the pay is less, the stress and worry and general conditions of teaching is not worth the relatively small bump in salary.

She says she'll return to it if and when things get better but for now it's too much. The staff shortages at her school are so bad she's called on to teach most days anyway, as she's the only LSA with a teaching qualification. Often she's asked to take lessons that aren't even her subject.

I'm also secondary English, now tutoring in a PRU. Whenever I do supply I get offered a job. That's not an exaggeration. They're so desperate that if you've got a head and two legs and can turn up on time, you get offered a job. It's madness. I'm registered with four agencies and for the last 18 months or so I'm offered work every day, often by all four agencies and very often they won't take no for an answer and ring back pleading with me, even when my reasons for not working are insurmountable (sick kid, no car that day and the school is 30 miles away etc). Husband is also a teacher and his school is desperate for teachers, especially in maths and English, but they just can't recruit.

mnahmnah · 09/01/2023 20:57

@ClaudiusTheGod

I had a trainee once who marked a whole set of assessments with ‘to of gotten a level 5 you should of…’ I had to go through them all with tippex!

Another was asked by a student what the highest mountain was (a yr 9 should have known this anyway of course!). Trainee said she didn’t know and asked me in front of the class! Even when I said Everest there was no recognition. The student then asked if anyone ever climbed it and she said ‘oh I doubt it’!!! It was all I could do not to headbutt the desk!

I could go on. But it just depresses me.

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 09/01/2023 20:58

DaphneBlue · 09/01/2023 17:33

DD qualified two years ago (secondary English). She's already decided that being an LSA is better for her because although the pay is less, the stress and worry and general conditions of teaching is not worth the relatively small bump in salary.

She says she'll return to it if and when things get better but for now it's too much. The staff shortages at her school are so bad she's called on to teach most days anyway, as she's the only LSA with a teaching qualification. Often she's asked to take lessons that aren't even her subject.

I'm also secondary English, now tutoring in a PRU. Whenever I do supply I get offered a job. That's not an exaggeration. They're so desperate that if you've got a head and two legs and can turn up on time, you get offered a job. It's madness. I'm registered with four agencies and for the last 18 months or so I'm offered work every day, often by all four agencies and very often they won't take no for an answer and ring back pleading with me, even when my reasons for not working are insurmountable (sick kid, no car that day and the school is 30 miles away etc). Husband is also a teacher and his school is desperate for teachers, especially in maths and English, but they just can't recruit.