To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

Prior to the ousting of the pro-russian government the EU/NATO offered Ukraine various economic and diplomatic incentives, Russia then countered with a better offer, which the democratically elected Ukrainian government accepted. That led to internal protests and next thing you know the Pro-Russians are out and the EU/NATO get what they've been hankering after.

Again, do you fancy talking us through that process including the role of all Ukraine's democratically-elected institutions and their constitutional powers?

They'd better go and invade Turkey & Greece too... You are aware of how Russia gets into the Med and how many NATO countries border the Med... then there is Gibraltar.

Or you re just another Russian apologist.

Yes, I am posting from Russia. I have many friends in the UK and used to study in the UK, that's why I was reading this forum. I'm already regretting posting in this thread, actually, but what did I expect?
Any news sources are available from here. Facebook and Instagram work only through VPN

The irony... criticising the West, on a western forum, whilst not able to post freely and be able to criticise Russia without fear of death or long jail sentences....

So we started with the idea that supporting Ukraine was against Britain's national interests. Many good posts were made explaining that actually it is very much in Britain's national interests for us to support Ukraine.

So now we are moving on to the idea that actually Russia was forced to launch a massive, bloody invasion of Ukraine against their will by Nato / EU / pesky Ukrainian's wanting to be free.

In case that doesn't work we can be reminded that in the past the UK / America have also done bad things.

For what it is worth I thought that the invasion of Iraq was a terrible mistake. I went on a lot of protest marches about it and luckily living in the UK wasn't sent to a gulag as a result. I still think however that it wasn't half as bad as Russia's invasion of Ukraine given that Saddam was an evil tyrant and Ukraine a democracy.

Afghanistan was in a terrible state before, during and after the intervention. 50% of the population now have no rights at all (and it's not the UK / USA that are doing that) but I don't know what the solution is given that the military intervention was a failure.

Russia's impact on the world today is totally negative. Invading Ukraine, threatening nuclear war, killing countless civilians in Syria, stirring trouble all over Africa with the Wagner group, assassinating people with deadly poisons in South East England.

There's a reason why when given a free choice Eastern Europeans would rather align themselves with the USA.

From every perspective, both practical and moral supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do.

NATO don't invade by putting boots on the ground, but they are/have been expanding and increasing the areas under their control through other means. A soft invasion if you will. The EU/NATO have attempted to court Ukraine into their fold for ages. Prior to the ousting of the pro-russian government the EU/NATO offered Ukraine various economic and diplomatic incentives, Russia then countered with a better offer, which the democratically elected Ukrainian government accepted. That led to internal protests and next thing you know the Pro-Russians are out and the EU/NATO get
what they've been hankering after.

A question that has been studiously avoided by apologists. Should any of the former Warsaw Pact countries have been allowed to make sovereign decisions for themselves such as joining the EU or NATO? Should they be permanently required to remain within Moscow's sphere of influence? Would you say Estonia is more secure from Russian expansion or less secure by being a member of NATO?

@DanseAvecLesLoups Russia is the reason NATO is expanding. Their threatening behaviour makes countries want to join an alliance to defend themselves. Why did Finland and Sweden just apply to join? Because they saw what Russia has been doing to Ukraine.

Russia is a bulwark of Christendom.

Many who have power in “The West” don’t like this.

But many people privately support Russia and see Ukraine for the sock puppet that it is with Zelenskyy and his multimillion pound property portfolio as the helm:
www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle

Many Ukrainians would identify more closely with their Russian neighbours than with Zelenskyy and his faction.

Sorry but this is absolute bullshit

@YeezyPeasy · Russia is a bulwark of Christendom

They obviously have been looking at a very different version of the gospels from the one I am familiar with.

russia is a nation of barbarians and savages

Bulwark of Christendom my arse

thanks for the link re zelensky. Now do the midget in the Kremlin and all his cronies. They have clearly missed the Christian memo on the 10 commandments

based on this logic can you explain to me how you see US enforcing monroe doctrine? For eg Mexico doesnt have the right to join a Chinese military alliance. Does Mexico have the sovereign right to do this?

For reference www.history.com/topics/westward-expansion/monroe-doctrine

@YeezyPeasy

Not really getting the Christian vibe from the Wagner group or the Russian military myself to be honest.

Putin is hardly a pauper either but at least Zelenskyy is on the front line in range of your murderous missiles.

Fucking hell, the cranks have really come out to play for this thread.

Zelenskyy might dress like he’s on the front line - as an ex-actor he certainly loves a costume! But he spends most of his time with his hand out, begging from Joe Biden, who can’t really refuse to send billions to Ukraine as then what country would he and his cronies launder money through?

I’m not Russian by the way, just a concerned Christian.

Concerned Christian?

@YeezyPeasy You're a genocide apologist. Not very Christian like behaviour.

Yes bit of a stretch. I’m not hearing much concern for the horrors people are facing in Ukraine.

No, the Ukrainian people are free to resist the invasion and choose their own path. Unfortunately for them, they chose a path that has resulted in the invasion of their country.

The rights and wrongs of that are irrelevant as this was the inevitable outcome of western ideological expansion and political interference. Ukrainians are nothing more than pawns in the latest round of the western attempt at global domination. There's a complete and utter reluctance by so many on here to even consider that things aren't as simple as Russia bad, EU/NATO good.

And the Bahrain example does work, you just don't want to answer because you know full well that if the roles were reversed the US/UK/EU would have "freedom and democracy" raining down by breakfast and boots on the ground by lunch.

Genocide?

Oh do give it a rest, dear.

@YeezyPeasy A genocide denier as well as an apologist. Dear.

One might think you'd be more concerned with what the Kadyrovites were doing to Christian men, women and children.

What a joke. Dear

Unfortunately for them, they chose a path that has resulted in the invasion of their country.

This is just highly offensive bullshit.

There's no justification for invading. Utterly dishonest to try to lay that at the Ukrainians door. As you well know.

Can you answer the original question rather then resort to whataboutism. I am well are of the Monroe doctrine, and for what it is worth I don't agree with US historical foreign policy in Latin America either.

So, should say the Baltic States, Poland etc be allowed to determine their own futures outside of Russian influence?

30% of those voting agree with me. are 30% of MN population russian bots?

Possibly not - but certainly all the Russian bots active on MN will have voted with you, and have probably been directed to do so, from all their active accounts to add to the numbers. It's also interesting to see that many of your more vociferous supporters have little to no posting history.
It must be depressing to find that 70% of voters and 95% of those commenting disagree with your OP.

Russia is a bulwark of Christendom.

I'm curious as to what alternative you think Russia is bulwarking against by trying to take control of Ukraine.

'afraid you are far from a Christian "By their fruits you shall know them" and your fruit is rotten to the core.

Defending Putin and people like the Wagner group... hang your head in shame.

Ukraine has had enough of our taxpayer money. If Rishi wants to send some of his personal wealth, I won't stop him.

Ukraine didn't even exist as a country until about 30 years ago and the regions they want to claim back from Russia overwhelmingly voted to be part of Russia in multiple referendums. If Ukraine wants to be supported by the Western world, then they have to follow our democratic principles.