To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

Govt needs to re-evaluate what sort of involvement we have.
Defence or more aggressive weapons? Are we ready for the consequences or rather pace for time hoping he's out in a few years?

Domestically many are not happy as their guests now have more saving and disposable income than they do as they don't pay rent or utilities etc but are working full time. In some cases the winter makes it harder as some guests are claiming the money hosts are receiving is more than sufficient and thus have the heating on much longer etc.

It becomes more likely, given Putin's stated irredentist aims.

What about the last two decades makes you think that Ukraine is Putin's end game, rather than a territorial and economic enabler?

Do you think the West folding less than a year into this would make China more or less likely to think the West wouldn't act and take economic pain over Taiwan?

Not for a long time and certainly not now. We have seen Russian aggression in many countries and even actions in the uK killing our residents. We cannot afford to appease Russia my dear bot. Sorry Vladimir!

Oh gosh I missed that special bit. Yes, we'd be in a shooting AND economic war if Latvia was invaded, against a stronger enemy because we'd have handed him the keys to one of the key food producing nations.

So you think that a negotiated settlement with Russia isn't/shouldn't be an option? Is that because you think the UK can continue borrowing money to fund a war with Russia indefinately? Or that NATO can beat Russia into a humiliating defeat and that they will no longer present any threat the West as result?

@ChillyFloss your comments bear little relation to your original post.

We should be spending all the money siezed from Russian Oligarchs in this country & if we hadn't wasted God knows how much on the Rwanda scheme. Ukraine isn't the problem. We should be doing more with France to stop the small boats from ever being able to set off from France so we wouldn't have to be spending money on housing illegal arrivals here. What about all the money wasted during Covid? All the useless PPE which is gathering dust & taking up warehouse space that has to be paid for.

Thank you Greenshake
I know majority of British people support what's right - I run a Ukraine charity and ten months in we receive tremendous support,both emotional and financial.
Coming back to settlement - if anyone just tried to analyse recent history: annexed Crimea and creation of so called people republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, would see this was already settlement, and was it enough for Putin? No, he decided to destroy whole of Ukraine and grab territory.
If he isn't stopped,by Western weapons in ukrainian soldiers arms, he'll be in UK very soon and it will be much more expensive then

@Nat6999 thats totally off topic

The cost of the funds we are giving to Ukraine is a pittance compared to the cost of us actually being at war. A negotiated settlement is “an option” but ultimately it’s up to Ukraine as it’s their war. And it’s best for us if they get profoundly beaten back rather than appeased - that saves us in the long run.

@Saysomething1234

When Russia is defeated and realises they can't just decide they own half of another country?

Otherwise you may as well just hand Putin a map with some darts for him to decide which country he wants to annex next.

And at the same time hand China some too - they're after some new land, and perhaps North Korea too.. Both of those are keen to see how the West handle this situation before making their moves.

ok then. calling me vladimir and a bot sorts it then. great. a&e queue just disappeared by you saying that and money fountain has now re-appeared.

thanks!!!

I think China is sitting back and playing the long game. The Ukraine war is damaging western economies. It takes money and resources to fight a war. Do you think the West can beat China and Russia (erstwhile allies)? These conflicts are wars of attrition. I doubt there is much support for ongoing, indefinte conflict amongst all NATO members.

Russia has largest pile of nuclear weapons in the world. if putin is a madman as popularly believed, he will surely use it before being "profoundly beaten back"

You keep talking about the UK as if it's a unilateral actor in this which is frankly bizarre.

In whose gift do you think a 'negotiated settlement' should be?

And what do you think would happen if the UK unilaterally lifted sanctions and ended military support?

If putin gets control of Ukraine he controls grain, fuel and fertiliser supplies to emerging economies already in famine, war and extremely violent crime. These are some of the factors that force people to migrate to the likes of the UK. Which migrants do you prefer, because either way that's what's happening and will continue. Putin wants to remake the old ussr with life time tenure just like a tsar. He's happily deployed polonium and novichock on uk soil and that was just to show he could do what the hell he likes and nobody does anything. The Ukraine war has exposed how badly he understood his own forces and he's had to resort to mercenaries and carpet bombing. We can't afford to gift him the black sea ports, and control of emerging economies.

The AE queue isn't really related to helping Ukraine.
The lie that getting more isolated will magic more money for NHS has been used before. How did it played out with the promise of incresed NHS fundings after Brexit?

You don’t have any valid arguments either way Vladimir botface. Nor have you said anything that would have a positive affect on “queues at a&e”.

Tbf I think op was one of those people that actually fell for that. You would think she would learn!

And his state TV propaganda regularly threatens the world and UK in particular with nuclear attacks.

money is fungible. a £150b subsidy due to increased energy prices is a real cost for the UK. I am asking whether it is a good use of UK taxpayer money in the situation which we find ourselves in.

150b is not pittance and is a direct result of the energy prices going through the roof due to this war. this is 150b less available for domestic productive spending on services including NHS

This was my original post: "Why does the OP have to "be very specific"? All wars end with a negotiated settlement in one form or another. I think the OP is right to believe that too little emphasis is being place on this ATM. There was some talk recently of Russia being prepared to negotiate. I hope this is true."
Have you mixed me up with someone else? My position is that I believe the financial cost to the UK economy is too great to sustain long term and that we should be using our position within NATO for a settlement. Hardly fucking controversial.

You’d better hope that’s not true my binary friend.

Regardless of whether it is right to spend money supporting Ukraine, it makes no difference to the amount that will be spent on the NHS or any other domestic policy.

The Government make it look like they "balance the books" and keep spending in check, but the reality is that if they want to spend money on something they will, and if they don't then they won't.

Whatever we spend today is being borrowed from the future (ie it's not from some magic savings pot), so could be borrowed and spent on anything at any time. The Government don't want to spend money on the NHS ......

@Saysomething1234
If not a bot, I’m now wondering if perhaps you are not an adult.

A young teenager with a special interest in honing their debating skills?