To think there has been a shift in social attitudes towards the role of 16/17 year olds over the last few years

[Toomuchisnotenough]

The governments new plan to make maths/English compulsory until age 18 has got me thinking about something. All the opposition to this plan has been based on it being unworkable/unnecessary not that you should be able at 16/17 to pick your own subjects. Last year I remember the marriage bill to raise the age to 18 and remove the right for 16/17 year olds to get married. This was met with overwhelming support and (including on MN) it was almost universally agreed that age 16/17 is far too young to be married. On MN a few years ago (probably about before 2018 time) any 16/17 year old who was restricted by their parents rules almost always the response would be that the OP was BU and should allow them to do what they want. Recently, it seems on more threads that the attitude is that 16/17 year olds are children and should be restricted by their parents still - often the “brain doesn’t develop until 25” is used as justification. Of course, mumsnet is not a hive mind. However, it is representative of a large section of public opinion and when over and over again the same narratives come up on threads vs what was said maybe five years ago I think that does demonstrate something about social attitudes. I don’t necessarily think this is a bad change but I just find it interesting how attitudes seem to have changed so much in just a few years. Aibu to think there has been a big change in social attitudes towards 16/17 year olds in the last few years?

I think when a good proportion of people expected to leave school at 16 and get a job people did grow up quicker.
Among my Dad's friend/relatives there were a fair number who were married with a child by 18yo and he was considered the odd one because he went off to uni-the first one from his school.

But he was expected to fund himself, so he was working from young-I suspect from about 11yo if not younger. He worked pulling pints and on a farm from 14yo, and he was telling me the other day that when he was 15yo he had a weekend job as a landscape gardener at a local "posh" house. He saw an advert in a shop window, went round and told the lady what he'd like to do with her garden and she employed him. She used to introduce him as her "head gardener"! He used to go down to the local allotments if he didn't know how to deal with something in her garden and pick the brains of the people working there.

Interestingly, on this, I do university admissions, and in the 20+ years I’ve been doing it, between 2000 and 2020 it was really rare to see a 17 yo put a part time job on their UCAS form. Very few, those who did usually on the poorer side, had a job at that age. Last year and this year all of them had put jobs on their form - usually bar, retail or casual work, but the change was really striking. Didn’t seem to correlate to background, either - the wealthier ones also had jobs.

I’m guessing that for a fair number of teens, part time work was a way they could actually get out of the house during the lockdowns, and they didn’t feel too vulnerable to Covid, so it was attractive as something to do. I also reckon the post-Brexit labour shortage has a role to play - restaurants and pubs are hiring teenagers because of lack of staff, when previously they wouldn’t have done, maybe?

In any case, I think there’s a bit of a shift under way, and lots of young people are actually getting part-time jobs at the moment. There’s plenty that’s annoying about that generation - all the gender stuff and an obsession with mental health issues and so on. However, they party less, they drink much less and don’t tend to take drugs, they work hard at school, and they seem to be keen on getting out there to do part-time paid work, too, all of which is pretty admirable.

I think young adults are often over infantilised in todays world too. Parents accept their 22 year old storming around the house, behaving like a spoilt teenager, refusing to do chores, demanding money and shouting at parents, ‘because their brains aren’t fully developed until 25’ (which is a huge misconception regarding the neural pruning phase the brain goes through at this time). I’m 25, moved out at 18 independently, went to uni and had a baby at 21. I didn’t have a baby at that age intentionally, but I dealt with it like an adult should and got myself sorted and made my own choices without input from parents. Whereas I think most people on here would have a fit if finding out their darling underdeveloped infant of an adult was in that position. I find it shocking how over involved and enabling some parents on here are with their older teens/young adults lives’.

In Scotland 16 and 17 year olds can marry and vote in elections for Scottish parliament. There's also a consultation going on about allowing them to stand for parliament 

A friend of mine works in student housing and had a story about a mother of a student ringing up irate because the ignition on the cooker wasn't working and the housing officer had brought round a big box of kitchen matches for them to use for a few days until they got someone out to fix it. She "didn't want her daughter playing with matches".

In Scotland, the SNP wants to change the rules so that a 16 year old can become a member of the Scottish Parliament. So they would be representing constituents and voting on legislation while still at school. The advantage of children is that they don't know much, have little life experience and are extremely malleable.

I agree that a lot of teenagers have been infantilised in some ways, but in some others are being treated as way older and wiser than they are.

As someone said above, in Scotland 16-year-olds will be able to legally change their gender before they can even drink alcohol. Plus they want them to be able to be members of parliament at 16 and 17.

There seems to be simultaneous adultification of children much too young and infantilisation of teenagers much too old.

I think there's a big gap between recognizing that young adults' brains aren't fully developed yet and they therefore don't always make the best decisions, and condoning them storming around the house refusing to do chores, demanding money and shouting at parents!

I have two children who are in that 18-25 age group. I know and accept that their brains aren't fully developed, but I also wouldn't accept them behaving like spoilt teenagers!

IMO treated too much like young children. Just because they’re legally “a child” for the purposes of some legislation doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a distinction between the type of child they are. It’s not just that age group, it’s all secondary aged children being infantilised. It’s contributing to anxiety in this age group.

Well of course there are differences between 16 and 17 year old children, and 5 year old children. But 16 and 17 year olds are still children.