Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it legal to not receive any holiday pay?

33 replies

Aceofbase00 · 04/01/2023 07:05

Sorry didn't know where to post this.
I have a casual contract in a school where I'm paid hourly for the tutoring that I do. There's no holiday pay attached either to the hourly rate or that I receive during school holidays.
Also, I'm looking to leave it and not sure what sort of notice period to give. There isn't one stated on the contract, just says 'please let us know as soon as possible.'

OP posts:
Original poster
Aceofbase00 · 04/01/2023 07:05

I do about 6 hours a week.

OP posts:
AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair · 04/01/2023 07:07

Are you paid by the payroll or do you send them a bill?

EnyoClytemnestra · 04/01/2023 07:07

Sounds as if you work on a self-emplored basis, so not, you aren't entitled to holiday pay, nor sick pay

Original poster
Aceofbase00 · 04/01/2023 07:08

I'm paid by payroll. They haven't mentioned me being self employed on the contract or anywhere else. My line manager submits a timesheet for the hours I've worked and then I get paid monthly via that.

OP posts:
GoingtotheWinchester · 04/01/2023 07:10

Completely legal - sounds like you’re just paid for the hours you work.

Marmaladegin · 04/01/2023 07:10

In school if you're employed on a supply (hourly) rate, that rate includes your holiday/ sick pay. That's the norm

Original poster
Aceofbase00 · 04/01/2023 07:12

Ok that makes sense, thanks.
What about the notice period?

OP posts:
CecilyP · 04/01/2023 07:16

Marmaladegin · 04/01/2023 07:10

In school if you're employed on a supply (hourly) rate, that rate includes your holiday/ sick pay. That's the norm

This may be the case. I also work for a local authority and casual staff who submit monthly timesheets, get holiday pay added every 3 months. These extra hours appear on wage slips but the holiday pay is not shown separately.

Hoardasurass · 04/01/2023 07:19

If you are paye then legally you are entitled to 28 days pro rata so if you work 1 hour per day you would be entitled to 28 days ×1 hour pay per year in holiday pay however if you are a contractor/subcontractor or self employed then you get no holiday pay. The question is whether you are paye (would say on a payslip) or not.

AThousandStarlings · 04/01/2023 07:47

You're probably paid through a payroll company - that charges a monthly fee for the 'service'. You'll be classified as an employee, so you pay employment related taxes and the payroll company deducts this from your salary (income tax, national insurance etc their fee) before paying you. Your holiday and sick pay will be 'rolled up' into your hourly rate and there's no pension until 3+ months. So if you fell over and broke your arm you don't get any money/pay while your recover and if you fall in and cant work there's no money coming in. You'll be on short notice - prob 1 week. Its not great. The rules on self-employment/contractors have tightened up - the govt/tax man now takes a big slice. (If you were self employed, you'd be taxed differently to reflect the risks you assume)

OdeToBarney · 04/01/2023 07:50

@AThousandStarlings rolled up holiday pay is now illegal.

Mariposa26 · 04/01/2023 07:52

“Rolled up” holiday pay is no longer legal. If you are not self employed (ie they are taxing you via their payroll) then you should be receiving either appropriate annual leave or holiday pay clearly marked out on your pay slip. I work in HR and have seen two (big) companies do this incorrectly, using “rolled up” holiday pay which they have then been forced to back pay to casual staff.

BettyTastica · 04/01/2023 08:15

Mariposa26 how long do you get to have it rectified after you leave? It’s hard to rock the boat when you want/enjoy the job.

My family member works on a zero hour contract in the state music education sector, they get an hourly rate, same hours each week, for 35 weeks a year. The hours may change each academic year but then they are relatively consistent (may fluctuate an hour or two per term). They are told by the boss that the hourly rate includes holiday pay. It is not listed separately on the payslip. They do not get the same allowances as contracted staff either (ie contracted staff get an additional wear and tear car payment). They are expected to attend training days but no hourly rate paynent received but it does not take them under minimum wage. Travel time is not paid, again doesn’t take under minimum wage.

BettyTastica · 04/01/2023 08:16

Sorry op that doesn’t answer your question. I just think it’s common in this sector. Wasn’t there a case of a music teacher who had holiday back pay recently? No idea if it’s relevant to your situation.

Mariposa26 · 04/01/2023 08:22

BettyTastica · 04/01/2023 08:15

Mariposa26 how long do you get to have it rectified after you leave? It’s hard to rock the boat when you want/enjoy the job.

My family member works on a zero hour contract in the state music education sector, they get an hourly rate, same hours each week, for 35 weeks a year. The hours may change each academic year but then they are relatively consistent (may fluctuate an hour or two per term). They are told by the boss that the hourly rate includes holiday pay. It is not listed separately on the payslip. They do not get the same allowances as contracted staff either (ie contracted staff get an additional wear and tear car payment). They are expected to attend training days but no hourly rate paynent received but it does not take them under minimum wage. Travel time is not paid, again doesn’t take under minimum wage.

You can usually claim back pay of holiday pay for two years if you are a worker but if they did not agree to it and you had to take them to tribunal, you’d have to do that within 6 months of leaving.
Here is the section from the government website which outlines that any contract for a worker (not self employed) that says holiday pay is included within an hourly rate needs to be renegotiated, so maybe worth your family member showing that to their boss. I imagine their total hourly rate will remain the same going forward though just with the holiday pay element separated out - but they are really entitled to back pay as currently the employer has no evidence that holiday pay has been paid.

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/holiday-pay-the-basics

BettyTastica · 04/01/2023 09:05

Thanks Mariposa26 (name taken from the board game?). To see the holiday pay separated out would be interesting as no idea how many weeks etc they get. The contract doesn’t say.

Original poster
Aceofbase00 · 04/01/2023 09:43

I'm being taxed by them which is shown on my payslip. There's zero mention of holiday pay on the contract. I think it's good I'm leaving, there's zero security or guarantee involved.

OP posts:
Mariposa26 · 04/01/2023 14:25

Even if it is not mentioned on your contract, they have to pay it to you and if they are not breaking it out on your payslip and are not letting you actually take the leave, they have failed to pay you holiday pay which is legal requirement. I’d raise it with them personally but conscious lots of people wouldn’t. Definitely sounds good you’re leaving.

SeenAndNot · 04/01/2023 14:48

You’re an employee, you’re entitled to holiday leave/pay. You need to raise this and they should backdate it.

Original poster
Aceofbase00 · 04/01/2023 15:05

Thanks for replies, my leave is considered as the school holidays apparently. I'm paid an hourly rate for the hours I work in term time, just looked at the payslip again and there's zero mention of a holiday pay.

OP posts:
2bazookas · 04/01/2023 15:26

Sounds like you're a sessional worker, paid by the hour for agreed term time shifts. No pay during the holidays because you don't work in school holidays.

Read your contract.

Mariposa26 · 04/01/2023 16:07

Are you paid during the holidays then OP if they are saying that’s your leave entitlement?

Merryoldgoat · 04/01/2023 16:11

GoingtotheWinchester · 04/01/2023 07:10

Completely legal - sounds like you’re just paid for the hours you work.

No. Entirely incorrect for all employees on PAYE.

@Aceofbase00

You are entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday pro-rata for the amount of the year you were employed.

You should be paid based on a typical week.

Original poster
Aceofbase00 · 04/01/2023 16:53

No not paid anything during holidays

OP posts: