AIBU about dog ownership/responsibility/accountability

[Abigail69]

We don't own a dog and would not as we do not have the time or spce to look after a dog as we would want to IE like a member of the family.

At least once a week there is a story bout a horrific attack by a dog on often someone that is known to them and less frequently on a stranger.

I've been to many clients' homes where their dog is looked after as it should be, IE'm cared for like a member of the family and treated very well.

I've also visited other clients' homes where the dog is not treated as it should be and the house is often unkempt/etc. Often two scenarios for the aforementioned, first is the owner is frail/etc and does not have the capacity to look after their dog properly but they still love the dog and dog is nice/friend/y and the owner is good at identifying who is comfy with their dog and who is not. Then you get the second lot that could look after the dog and the house but for whatever reason doesn't do it well and often their dog is very lively and some of these people use the dog a trophy/etc.

Re dog attacks, I've never blamed a dog, i always feel the owner has let the dog dog but there must be causes for whatever reason dog is cared for really well and the dog is starlted etc, so genuine mistakes can happen

How do we in the UK try to ensure a safer environment for the dogs and the public is the question?

IMO, a 'fit for the purpose, ie responsibility of dog ownership' should become mandatory for all new owners ie when they get a dog or another dog. This licence like a driving test has a theory test EG, what is good, not so good/wrong when looking after a dog. A check on the potential owner's police record for use of possibly drugs/weapons/anti-social behaviour etc etc, I don't really know but something that goes towards making them appear fit to keep a dog. Licen is reviewed ever 12 months and or when they get a new dog. And no more than two dogs per property over the age of lets say one year old.

The above would exempt for the time being those already with a dog and task new dog owners or new dogs to licence test ect, fees paid for by those needing to take a test

The above can be tweaked and the licence fee of 200/approx is not unreasonable as dogs cost loads of money and looking after them a lot more.

Then enforcement ie those not having a licence where one is required or breaching term sof licence EG, letting dog off leash where not allowed etc, warning/dog removed etc depending on the number and seriousness of offence

The above is just an idea but something needs to be done to safeguard the public and the dogs.

FYI, I'd love a dog as I've seen how loving they are, more so than people in many cases but some kind of control will help the pet/dogs and the public as long as whatever brought in is enforced. (A simple thing most of us encounter daily when taking kids/grandkids to school, especially in winter, leaves damp leaves on pavements hiding dog mess that has not been cleared up. Yes, the vast majority of owners clean up and as always it is the minority that let all down and a licence would help if owners are caught not cleaning up lets say more than once, fines and the possibility of dog being removed. etc - just an idea that can be tweaked.

AIBU to hope for a licence of the above type? (They are just thoughts and I'm sure they could be tweaked to ensure the licence does do what it is intended to do, IE reduce the number of irresponsible dog owners and easier to track/etc via a licence/passoprt/id kind of thing - just ideas)

(I am very aware the vast majority of owners are responsible owners)

I'm not sure if any EU country has control like this and if so, does it work?

Most of us are aware the licence will not be 100% successful if it came to fruition but does that mean we do nothing? The simple answer is no, we must demand action

will not be You know your post doesn't automatically become law just because you've posted it in AIBU, right? There's no "will" about this. It will not be anything, because it won't happen.

And if people aren't kicking off about energy prices, cost of living crises, strikes, the general chaos in the UK, I don't think your call to arms to demand action about dog licensing is going to work...

I have a dog. She is well behaved, and I have had no issues with her in public (apart from kids trying to kick her). I also have a few cautions. Why should my history with the police have any bearing on me getting another dog?

I think the biggest difference would be made by a crackdown on backyard breeding. As in, you have to have a licence to breed dogs, display good knowledge of the breed or crossbreed and genetic/health tests must be carried out beforehand. Dogs must be inspected for temperament before they can be bred and if you are not a breeder you should be legally required to spay or neuter your dog by a certain age. Microchips also mandatory.

It's idiots breeding their pets that often create dogs of unstable temperament and people wanting to look hard with an aggressive dog on the lead. Crack down on the breeding and you solve a lot of problems. Responsible breeders will rehome to responsible owners, responsible owners will raise and train the puppy properly and spay/neuter when old enough.

Puppies are also more likely to have a good nature to start with if both their parents are good natured. It's only half about the way they're raised. Some of it is just in their nature, you can't train a terrier out of chasing small animals for example. It's what they were bred for. But tighter regulations on breeding and rehoming/selling will help with that too because responsible breeders will not sell to inappropriate owners.

I don't hold with all this shit about 'dangerous breeds' very few breeds are actually dangerous. It's about their genes and their environment and to a limited extent, their upbringing.

You don't buy a high energy guarding breed if you've a house full of children. You don't buy a husky if you live in a flat. You don't buy a labrador if you can't walk it every day. If no one would sell or rehome to these twats then you wouldn't get so many out of control, under exercised, understimulated dogs whose owners haven't the first clue how to handle them or train them to behave.

In Australia, we have found that tougher legislation on breeding has resulted in poorer breeding. The big puppy farms can afford to lobby for rules that suit them. The show breeders who just breed for looks can afford to pour money into kennels for their dogs to be kept in. The people who don't care about good breeding don't care about the rules and just breed dogs anyway. It's the breeder with one or two quality bitches who raises healthy, temperamentally stable puppies in their home ( that may not win in the ring ) that are forced out by tighter legislation.

I'd bring in hefty licences. Fund nightly street-cleaning with it, and set up CCTV to catch offenders who don't pick up poo. Heavy fines for those caught.
Funding would get directed to the costs of healthcare dealing with dog attacks. Owners need insurance to pay for the cost of treatment AND a meaningful amount for the trauma.

I'd also ban dogs from public buildings, and restrict them to one dog park per town. Banned from public transport too.

All of this is doable. We just need politicians who care.

Why do we need nightly street cleaning?
CCTV does not cover all areas. If it did, women would feel safer.

One dog park per town? Hahahah! In my town, there are 8 dog owners per every 1000 people (I am not convinced that is right... seems very underestimated) . 250k people here. That would be several thousand dogs in one park. Yeah, get fucked on that point.

What insurance can I claim on for someone injuring my dog? It works both ways. A small kid tried to bash my dog on the head with a toy recently... in a cafe. Kid's mum stopped them, thankfully. Had the kid managed to brain my dog, what insurance could I claim on? Could I claim for my dog's trauma and vet bills? How about my trauma about seeing some shitty kid badly behaving?

Domesticated wolves should be on a lead. Any not should be destroyed. That's it.

Street cleaning to reduce the amount of dog shit left all over the place.

Keep your dog in your own garden then. Haven't got a big enough garden, don't have a dog.

Why the hell is your dog in a cafe? Gross. Keep your dog in dog areas only, and away from kids.
Hth.

£200 a year. Where do you propose the rest of the money comes from ? We are struggling to keep the country afloat as it is!

I disagree with your idea, this country is far to regulated anyway and you want to make it a more miserable place to live.

I agree that some dog owners are irresponsible and certain breeds should be banned, but what you are suggesting won’t work.

Totally on board with mandatory training/licences, but I do think there is an element of scaremongering when it comes to dog attacks. Far more people are killed by other people than they are by dogs. We haven't banned people from going out at certain times or in certain locations.

I also think that everyone, especially children, should get basic training on how to act around all animals, not just dogs. It amazes me how many people will just reach out and stroke a random dog, a farm animal in its field, etc.

You comparing children with dogs, seriously?

Well it works. Children can be killed / injured by their parents, it happens a fair bit. As children are more important than dogs, maybe we should introduce a license for parents 🤷🏻‍♀️
You can't ban dogs from public areas, anymore than you can ban people. They have a right to be there too. It's a public area.

I think the fee from getting the licence should pay for street cleaning - dog owners who don't pick up after their dog.
You could never enforce standards of training or looking after a dog. People are will do what they will - however an annual fee towards cleaning up the mess might resolve one issue.

Most fatal dog attacks happen in the home involving either the owner or a family member. I don't know what the answer is but there is no point in creating laws unless they are policed properly, and from a practical/cost point I don't think the government would be on board.

I would personally like to see more breeds added to the banned breed list, including Bully dogs and Cane Corsos.

Why are threads concerned with dogs always so bonkers? Banning dogs from all public places would make it impossible for anyone except farmers and landowners to have dogs, and is completely disproportionate. It would also be a real shame for kids whose parents can’t have dogs at home but who really benefit from meeting well behaved and friendly dogs in parks and footpaths. Blanket bans on dogs off leashes would also punish those many owners and dogs that cause no trouble whatsoever. Neither ban would address the problem of lethal dog attacks effectively because most of these very sad incidents take place in the dog’s home and the victims are often the owner’s children. The proposed license would cost huge amounts to administer and enforce, and as a previous poster has said, would add very little of any use to existing laws. The problem is that existing laws aren’t enforced because of lack of resources.

Who is going to be inspecting these licences? It's just bureaucracy that will not be enforced and only law abiding owners will bother. Chipping is compulsory m, and 4 breeds are banned yet when they have reported on these horrible incidents the dogs aren't chipped and the breed is a banned breed!

My dog is fully trained (got the gold award at dog training) fully insured and has near perfect recall (nobody can say perfect, humans aren't perfect!) and we've had issues with aggressive dogs attacking him (worst was at 12 weeks old) yet I can't see the point of punishing the responsible owners with more costs. We need to get stricter with the laws that exist and ban people from having more than 2-3 dogs out at once as that's when issues occur

35 years ago dog licence was done away with you said. Just shows why we are were we are now and time for another attmept

I strongly urge people to report anyone they know of not clearing up their dog mess. At times the coucil may send a standard letter reminding dog owner to clear up and this really winds up any guilty party

Council that I know off will paint those 'pick up your mess' prints on pavements where the anti-social brigade blight the area with not clearing up their dog mess. It may not make the culprit clear up but IMO get more people to report a culprit.

Challenging a culprit, the only time I'd do it if it was on our drive or outside our house as these types can turn very aggressive from my own experience and those I know of. They often rant "I was going to @@@ give me a chance i was going home as i forgot the bag.." yeah, right

Its a bit like not bothering to have your car road legal, there is often more to people like this when stopped by cops. IMO same re dog owners that do not clear up and are well aware that children/frail/all will at some stage step into it, slip fall and injure self or as with children a real possiblity when playing in a park etc the germs of dog mess may make them ill.

We do need enforcement of the existing laws and at the very least more people to report the few who can't be bothered

Several years ago a friend, work friend stepped off a bust getting home in the dark and it was raining - her second step right into a pile of dog mess - she fell and got covered in the mess. Thankfully she was not seriously injured,

I'd make the licence at least £1000 a year. Maybe £2k. Has to be enough to fund street-cleaning, dog shit DNA database, wardens.
Insurance essential to pay for recuperation from attacks. They are more common than people like to think.
So what if you can't afford it. Dogs are not essential.

I personally am sick of dogs EVERYWHERE I go. Everywhere. Shops, cafes 9sitting up at the table next to me!), restaurants, pubs, my workplace (begging for food as I eat my lunch), off lead outdoors in places where they are supposed to be on lead (jumping up with muddy paws), EVERYWHERE. The result of the massive upturn in dog ownership in the last few years.

I realise they can't be banned from all public spaces but I would like to see a row back on just how bloody ubiquitous they are.

Great and very reasonable post
We will have to allow those already with dogs an exemption until they get another dog etc.

It's bit like buying a car, its not just the cost of the car but the running costs - so a great post,

Those caught breaching licence, just like criminal offences, fine/action according to breach and seriousness and if repeated etc.

Great idea, thanks

Do people not get fed up with seeing dog mess in roads, on pavements, parks and at times on your drive/steps etc and then you find you or your children etc step into it

I've stepped into dog mess, it was peeing down, reached customers house, parked up, ready to dash out and in the middle of the road was dog pile mess. I kept a spare pare of shoes - nearly made me vomit - shoes were new, cost about 80 quid - i had plastic bags and wipes - back home tried to clean them without getting dirty water inside - then cleached the soles etc and looked at them week later still the smell then thre them away

Nice idea but it won't work, the only ones who would bother getting a license are the already responsible dog owners, the ones who don't care still won't and nothing will change. Police and council officers simply do not have the resources to enforce it either.

True to an extent but when others get stopped and no licence, they will get a fine and then the dog taken away if they don't get one within 72 hours or are refused one