Sleep issues (4 year old)

[Owlandhorse]

Does anyone else have to lie with their child until they fall asleep every night?

I’m feeling really upset tonight that I could be enjoying my evening watching trash on TV and eating quality street/drinking wine. But instead, like every other night (my partner and I take it in turns) I’m laying on the hard floor of my son’s room waiting for him to go to sleep so I can creep out (he’s 4 now and he’s never been able to self settle) once he’s asleep he tends to stay asleep until morning, so that’s one thing. But myself and my partner never get an evening together as one of us has to do this every night.

We also have to read 3 stories every night and they’re not always short ones.

I know I shouldn’t complain really as he does sleep okay once he finally drifts off, but it can take hours for him to actually fall asleep and meanwhile, all that time I’m laying on a hard wooden floor in the cold.

Some say we’ve ‘made our bed’ by doing this every night and set up a precedent.

I just feel sad tonight that I haven’t been able to join my partner downstairs and enjoyed the last of Christmas/New Year together, just the two of us. By the time I end up going down, we’ll both be so exhausted ourselves we’ll just want to go to bed.

Yeah sounds like you pander to him. I'd start sleep training in some way. The 3 stories thing is silly really and would do my head in. We use methods such as if you don't go to sleep you won't have the energy to see X tomorrow or you won't be able to have your favourite breakfast tomorrow because you'll be too tired etc. Seems to convince our daughter.

It's more common than people admit. There are gradual retreat sleep training methods you could look to use. Get a foldaway bed or blanket if not, or transition to a chair. And perhaps start chapter books and read 3 chapters.

You can’t continue like this. Have you tried saying “oh I just need to pop to the toilet” and leaving for a few minutes and making up other jobs to leave him longer and longer? Maybe a YOTO player so he can have an audio book to listen to as he drifts off? A nice night light or projector?

Way too many props. Bath. 1 story. Leave.
Or 4 years time this will still be your life.

Yes, she's got a lot of anxiety. Leaving her is unnecessarily cruel and deeply upsets her. She's not NT so I give up on "normal"

Yoto, light show, popping out, reasoning etc, no difference.

Gosh, you obviously know that you can't continue like this. You are the adults and he is the child. Set clear boundaries and stick to them. Starting with one story!!!

He may not like it for a few nights but will soon get the hint if you're consistent.

It shouldn't be taking him hours to fall asleep. I lie with my 3yo ds but he's literally asleep within 10 minutes so it's not a big deal.

Does he still have a nap during the day? That's the only time ds takes ages to fall asleep- if he's had an afternoon nap. Otherwise we start the bedtime routine at 6.30 and he's asleep for 7.

I agree with @inkworks273

I don't think the initial thing to look at is the fact you have to lie there, it's the why is he taking so long to fall asleep

The popping to the loo/going to hang the washing etc excuses to leave for a couple of minutes, then slowly extending the time you're away worked for us too.
I would be wary of introducing any more crutches though, and agree about cutting book time. 1 longer story or 2 short ones seems fair.

No. He doesn’t have a nap anymore, hasn’t for about 2 years now.

I think he might have some sort of ND - either ADHD or ASD. But not diagnosed. He almost can’t switch his brain off.

Now our routine is three stories, he won’t settle for anything less!
He has a Tonie box, but that doesn’t even seem to help much.
Its a losing battle.

"He almost can’t switch his brain off." I've said the same about DD, under the autism clinic and I think I'll refer her for ADHDat some point too.

We do two books and then the same yoto story, deviating causes problems.

Might be worth speaking to his gp for some advice. I know some kids benefit from melatonin. I'm not suggesting you jump straight to that but I think it would be worth asking the gp for some input.

My DS was 5 before he felt comfortable going to sleep without one of us there. He was 4 before he stopped needing physical contact to sleep. Now he listens to the Thomas the tank engine story podcast on Spotify every night to go to sleep. He also struggles to calm his mind at bedtime, and has lots of nightmares at night too

YOU ARE NOT ALONE! It’s so infuriating. Thankfully we no longer have to lie on the floor (child now age 6) but bedtimes are still an absolute pantomime (sibling age 4 too) and I dread it every single evening. One of the worst parts of parenting for me. Particularly after an early start, long day with them and then feeling once they’re finally asleep I need to go to bed myself to have the energy to get through the next day.

I still have to sit with my 7yo. But I sit on a chair in the corner and read, or use my laptop, as reframing this as time to do something for myself has helped with my frustration. He needs noise to fall asleep, to help his brain switch off, so we put on some tunes and he's normally asleep within 10 minutes. Why do you have to lie on the floor?

we sit with our DS5 but sit on the end of his bed and scroll on phones. He knows we’ll stay until he’s asleep. Usually takes about 10-20mins. He had 1 or 2 stories (depending on length)

I don’t think stories or sitting with a child that age is a bad thing at all. Just make tweaks so it’s more comfortable for you too?

I would chat to him in the day about it in the lead up to bedtime ‘mummy’s back gets very sore lying on the floor so tonight I’ll sit on the end of your bed.’ ‘If you pick a book from this box, you get one story (because they are longer) or you can pick two books from the other box (because they are shorter) Shall we pick them out now?’ Etc

Get the Ferber sleep training book.

Amammai there is nothing wrong with reading books to or sitting with your child to help them sleep if it is only taking 10-20mins, as with your DC (and you are happy to sit, of course), but OP's DC is taking hours to fall asleep, which isn't fair or reasonable for parent or DC.

OP, you seem resistant to making changes, but whatever you do will disrupt his routine for a bit until he adjusts to the new one. The suggestion I and a PP made about getting him used to you popping out for a bit then returning, and gradually lengthening the time away as he adjusts works really well - it is worth a go! The key is being consistent and making sure they feel confident you will come back each time.
My eldest DC has ADHD and ASD, and she too struggles to relax enough to get off to sleep. We found being in the room with her just acted as a further distraction and extended how long it took her to get to sleep. The other things that have made a noticeable difference (although still hasn't completely solved the problem - I don't think anything can TBH, it forms part of her ND) have been no screens for at least an hour before bed, lots of vigorous exercise (ideally every day), some independent reading alone before lights out to clear her mind of other thoughts, moving bedtime an hour later (counterintuitive, but suggested to me by CHUMS and works!), and introducing an eye mask. The latter I was unsure about because, as I said upthread, I am keen to avoid crutches which usually cause more issues than they solve, but in this case it helps to remove stimuli and has only been a positive thing once we bought enough so at least one can always be found in DD's ADHD system of room organisation (ie chaos) . The reading thing he may be a bit young for still depending on his ability, but is worth bearing in mind once he is confident to read independently.

I still sit on my 5yo floor most nights until he goes to sleep and I secretly quite like it because I get 10 mins to sit in peace and scroll through my phone 🤣
I am very firm about 1 story only and it’s only a very short story if he doesn’t get ready for bed when asked, I couldn’t deal with 3 every night!

This is exactly my situation at the moment. I do the whole consistent bedtime routine thing. No screens for an hour before, bath, 2 stories, slowly winding down, making sure the room is darker but not totally dark etc etc and it takes anything between 1-3 hours for my 4 year old to go to sleep. Bedtime was supposed to be 7.30pm, I now aim for 8.30pm but often she doesn't fall asleep til 11pm. She is exhausted. I have to lift her asleep out of bed for school in the morning and she is mega grumpy and difficult because she is so tired. I have tried leaving and coming back, I have tried sitting with her til she's asleep (but I just seem to be another distraction), I have tried just leaving and letting her cry, but after 15 mins I give up because it's awful. She won't let me leave the room and screams if I do. She has never been a good sleeper, but 4 weeks of an 11pm bedtime is making me lose my mind (and probably hers too).
Not sure if there is a solution, but wanted to provide reassurance that you're not alone. I feel useless and helpless. It's like she's got a button to activate sleep and I just haven't worked out how to use it yet or I'm not able to read the instructions properly, and everyone else can.
I envy the people who's children fall asleep within 10 minutes. Please can you come to my house and help me?!

Hey, did you work anything out at all? I have a 5 year old who I also suspect may be ADHD/asd and just cannot sleep. He currently sleeps every other night and it's killing me!! I sit in his room, he goes to sleep fairly easily (with support of sleep stickers, magnesium etc) but often wakes after a few hours and is genuinely ready to start his day. Last night he slept 9-12 and has been up since full of energy, I feel like I'm dying at this point