To wonder why the UK became so dog friendly?

[LancelotsLeftArm]

I have had several dogs in my life but I'm finding recent events in the last 2-3 years baffling.

Local ice cream shop lets dogs in - no longer go there as last time there was a massive dog blocking serving place where DC choose flavours, not sure what breed but size of a Labrador. 2 year Old's face ended up getting licked and knocked over,now DC doesn't feel comfortable around dogs. Always dogs there now but usually not that bad.

Family member has 2 labs that hate each other (no idea why) plus a history of "nipping" each other (?!) and recently they were growling at each other, teeth bared, lips rolling back. Toddler right between them with a toy. Heard the growling, got worse for about about 2mins, decided to tell toddler to move away quietly and calmly. Put myself between toddler and dogs. In law Relative went ape shit , offended. FFS. Decided we're not welcome in future if we don't accept that the dogs would "never harm a child" (like that's a reassurance).

School (primary school) is dog friendly and allowing dogs on leads in playground at pickup times which would NEVER have been accepted in my school. Including larger ones, not terriers etc - more Pointers etc.

My GP 25 years ago had a dog in his office. I loved it! Dogs used to wander about every where in the streets in the 80s when I was young. Things got a lot more anal in the 2000s

Because animals inhabit the earth as well as humans

And most animals will discourage other large, predatory species out of their habitat when they are competing with them for similar space and resources, and don't allow other animals to invade their colonies, nests, dens, burrows etc.

Its completely natural for many humans to want to avoid dogs.

In country pubs then fine I get it. But I really wish they would fuck off from other venues.

In the interest of balance, “dog” is a pretty broad spectrum.

I do not consider this a large predator that I am competing with for resources.

As a dog lover and owner for the past 20 years, I agree with OP. Absolutely lovely to be welcome to take your dog to more pubs or cafe’s but, I agree, this should be in designated areas only. Not everyone loves dogs!
But, why oh why do you need to take your dog to John Lewis?? The dog (imo) will not enjoy this experience, and the one I saw, was scared to death when I had dye on my eyebrows at the benefit brow bar 😂

I don't consider any canine breed you can scoop with one hand, a dog at all. It is a rat on a rope. And they seem to be the types that people let riot in cafes and parks because they are deemed too small to cause harm or be annoying.

My sister works in a clothes/accessories shop. She said the staff have several times had to clean up dog wee/poo. They are paid minimum wage fgs I'm sure it can't be in their contract that as well as serving customers they must pick up dog poo inside the shop!!

It is a dog though as far as these dog friendly establishments (and DNA) are concerned. I’m unsure of the law around pet rats in cafes / John Lewis.

If a dog is getting on your nerves it is because “PEOPLE let them run riot” as you said. It is the human that is at fault for being a bad owner, not training their dog, letting it run up to people.

I find it bizarre, and I have a dog, he gets plenty of exercise in woods and fields there's no way I would take him in a shop or cafe, I mean what's the point? what does the dog get out of it?

I'm sure people are very well aware of this.

But it also doesn't change the fact that dogs shed fur, dribble and have rolled around in god knows what. People have said it several times on this thread - it's not just about the behaviour of the dog, the fact is they are unsanitary to be around others' food and in clothing stores.

And what terribly miserable people some must be if they can't merely crack a smile at a toddler in their formative stages of life where they are learning about social interaction.

Someone has made the point I was going to make in that actually I think the UK is catching up with how it works in other countries. I was in nyc in summer and there were dogs in food stores etc. I've seen dogs in supermarkets in loads of European countries.

I don't mind them in cafes and restaurants but then I really love dogs. I accept if you don't like them then it's prob very annoying.

I can only speak for my dog, but it the socialisation tires him out. He loves the attention he gets from shop or café staff. He loves to get a biscuit or a sausage too.

He just lies under the table in pubs and sits quietly until we're done. He loves shops as around here, most of them have a tasty supply of biscuits behind the counter

As others have said, due to Lockdown, people have got used to having their dogs with them 24/7 and have also lost the social awareness that other people may not like it.
There's dogs everywhere now. I love my dog, but he doesn't belong on a food shop, or on a trip to the city centre.
And definitely not in a church. This might sound random, but our cathedral now encourages dogs.

Fwiw, I remember recently going with our dog to Northern Ireland and being taken aback at how dog unfriendly it was. Now I wish that we were more like them.

I think places encourage it because it gets them business.

If I want to go to say, the post office or the locks shop, it's easier for me to pop in on the way back from walking the dog, than it is for me to walk past, go home, drop the dog off and come back again - and businesses know that.

I used to work in clothing retail and we used to get so many customers come in simply because we were dog friendly. They picked us over other shops because they didn't have to tag team, or leave their dog tied up outside or in the car.

So many areas of the economy have changed since lockdown - companies are adapting and still trying to find new ways to keep their income steady. I wouldn’t be surprised if some dog friendly places become less dog friendly over time if the dogs being poorly behaved becomes a significant issue - but generally if places are now dog friendly that weren’t before it’s because they make more money that way.

that said, it’s interesting to see comments about buses and trains being dog friendly now as if this is a new thing. Youve always been able to take dogs on public transport- we certainly did in my 80s childhood. I do wonder if some posters are thinking places have become dog friendly when in actual fact they have always been dog friendly, it’s just less people had dogs in the last 20 years so you didn’t see it.

I have no idea what help to get though. Mostly people suggest having her around quiet/calm dogs to get used to them. I have tried this, whilst she is less terrified than of bouncy barky dogs, she is still wary. My brother has a very calm dog who I’ve never heard bark and she spent 24 hours around him over Christmas. Whilst he was sleeping by the fire she was fine but as soon as she got up and moved she was back to shrieking again. Stressful for all concerned. We’ve also been to see tiny puppies, again she was fine when they were sleeping but once they became more bouncy she was back to being scared again, plus the slightest bark and she is terrified. Clearly, I’d love to resolve this issue but I don’t know how to. She is also only 3 so im not sure if CBT etc would work for someone so young?

I haven't read the full thread but, as a dog owner (for many years) I can't agree with the view that 'dogs are everywhere'. In my area (south east England) it's still a struggle to find somewhere to meet a friend for lunch/coffee where my (extremely well-behaved, properly trained) dog can come too.

It's true that I can leave my dog at home (and often do) but if I am going some distance to meet a friend it's not very fair for him to be left alone for hours, especially when he is complete under control and causes no problem to anyone. If I can leave him in the car I will, but this isn't safe in extremes of temperature.

I saw someone with their pet rat at a national trust cafe (outdoor seating on the terrace).

It was quite fascinating to be honest. The rat had a carry cage but it was out and sitting on the owners shoulder. Occasionally their knee or head. No trouble to anyone else, didn't go on the furniture or approach staff or other customers. Much better than most of the dogs that day.

So should all animals be allowed in all of the dog friendly places?

Because I am getting heartily sick of the likes of National Trust and Forestry Commission wanting to charge me extortionate fees to exercise my horse on trails where people can exercise their dog free of charge or included with their membership.

The UK is not that dog friendly. It has got better but has a long way to go to equal France.

Where I live there are hardly any cafes or pubs that allow dogs. It is also pretty difficult to find hotels that accept them. When I lived in France I never came across a restaurant, bar or hotel that did not allow them.

‘Fwiw, I remember recently going with our dog to Northern Ireland and being taken aback at how dog unfriendly it was. Now I wish that we were more like them.’

People there love dogs but they’re not generally considered as something you take to socialising venues! So while you might be okay with then in a country pub, in a cafe at a beach or in a country park cafe they stay outside. They’re not welcome in restaurants or shops, again they’re expected just to wait outside a shop.
you also don’t see them around kids parks as much, but I do think that’s partly because there’s so much green space and areas to walk a dog there, they don’t really need to come with you to the kiddie park when they have beaches, lough shores, fields etc to run around.

We took our dog to NI a few times, and she bloody loved it! So much space. Even in a city like Belfast there’s a lough, and the mountains within walking distance.
she was knackered with all the walking and chatting,so happily napped at home while we went out for dinner etc without her.

I feel like the thing dog owners don't get is that it's not just about their dog, it's about the environment when lots of dogs are present. We used to go to a local cafe and don't any more because there are often a dozen dogs there snarling at each other and sometimes fighting. Not a nice environment. And our kids don't like dogs begging for food right next to them.

There's also the pushing the boundaries thing - I have found quite a few people will bring their dog into the playground or other places like formal gardens which don't allow dogs - they justify it by saying their dog is well behaved but there really isn't any good reason their dog can't be tied up just outside, still in sight.

I get babysitters when it's not appropriate to take my kids somewhere, I don't understand why dog owners can't do likewise. Or just leave them at home sometimes, I really don't think all dogs in the 80s/90s were miserable and they were all left sometimes