To ask how the hell do I get my 3yo and 1yo to peacefully co-exist under the same roof?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Because I am at my absolute wit’s end!

I have two DC, 3yo DS1 and 1yo DS2. Individually, they are angelic children. Good humoured, happy and fun.
It’s when they’re together which is all the time, that’s the problem. They never play with anything nicely together and hardly ever play nicely separately. Always wanting the play with the toy the other has, if DS2 comes anywhere near DS1 then DS1 will scream and hit, shove or push him down. So I move DS2 away and then he starts screaming. It seems like every 20 seconds I’m pulling them apart and trying to get DS2 to engage with something different and leave DS1 alone and one of them is always screaming.
This is how I spend my days. All day, every day. And I genuinely can’t take much more. Help!!

Don’t know but I’m following for the answer mine are 10 and 8 and still argue and fight constantly.

Please let me know if you work it out!! The only reprieve is that my 3yo is at nursery school for 2.5hrs on weekdays.

The other day, I left them together for less than a minute to deal with something urgent. The 3yo smacked the 1yo and made up a story about someone coming into the house and smacking the baby, then leaving to continue their walk. I really had no idea what to say to that!

I wondered that too when mine were the same age, still wondering now that they're 7 and 5...

Just a small thought, why do you move DS2 away if DS1 is the one who’s hitting? It sounds (from your OP and their ages) that DS1 is the one who can’t behave appropriately - your other DS is just existing and upset by being hit or sidelined (which is fair enough). What have you tried to correct DS1’s behaviour? Moving DS2 away is just giving DS1 what he wants and rewarding the hitting. What’s your current discipline regime and what have you tried in the past?

I recommend the book Siblings Without Rivalry. It was pretty much my bible when my kids were young, and either it worked or we were lucky.

Honestly it’s hard to find a way to discipline DS1 in a way that is a) related to the thing I’m disciplining him for and not just arbitrary and b) won’t just make him more resentful of DS2. But equally I don’t want to always be punishing him when 9 times out of 10 he’s playing perfectly happily with his fire engines/train set or whatever and DS2 comes along and breaks the track apart that he’s spent time putting together, or tries to take a fire engine away. He’s also developmentally delayed (on the waiting list for a diagnostic assessment for autism) so his communication isn’t where you might expect it to be at his age.

Recommend the book Siblings Without Rivalry too.

I'm actually about to buy a room divider. So they can have space to play separately when wanted.

I mean this nicely, this is why.

You’re reluctant to discipline your DS1 because you’re too busy excusing his unacceptable behaviour by blaming a 1yo. You need to discipline him when he hits. You should prevent DS2 breaking things but DS1 also need understand that sometimes accidents happen and you don’t respond with violence when that happens. Actions have consequences and your DS knows that. Right now, the consequence of him hitting is that he gets what he wants - that’s not the message you want to give him. If you allow DS2 to be treated like this then he’ll end up resenting DS1 and you for allowing it.

How do they get on if say a gp is looking after them? As mine like this still at 16/18 but only when I'm around and it's an attention thing when with others they always have got on fine. I try and have for years only to get involved if blood about to be spilt.

Mine are 4 and 6 and play beautifully 70% of the time. You need to wait it out, they're still too little.

They are still too young for cooperative play. It’s a developmental issue. My 4yr old twins, polar opposites in temperament and interests, play very well together but didn’t always.

Put a barrier across the main room and one child one side and the other on the other side. Worked for me.

I have a 3yo and an almost 5yo, so similar age gap, but a bit further along than you. They play together fairly well. I'd say when they are playing together 70% of the time it's fine and they cooperate, play together, share etc. The rest of the time I'm either telling the older one not to boss the younger one about so much, and to let her play how she wants to, or telling the younger one to share, negotiating toys being swiped, games being knocked over etc. God forbid the dog gets involved too, then it's really chaos.

I try to let them work out their disagreements themselves if possible. I think it's important to learn to share, negotiate, work together etc. But they are still very young so I do intervene if it all goes awry.

I have some red lines though. I am working on the older one not absolutely howling and yelling at the younger one when she grabs one of his carefully set up games. Instead I'm trying to get him to address it firmly, 'please put the toy back' or getting him to come and tell a grown up. At the moment he frequently launches into an air raid siren of yelling and wailing, and it drives me nuts.

Hitting and throwing are absolute no no issues. I don't care who started it. If either of them hits, whether they whack me or daddy or each other, they get a time out, followed by an short conversation about why they have been put in time out and what alternative actions would have been better. If a toy gets launched across the room, it gets removed for a period of time with an explanation of why. Neither of these behaviours are solutions we find acceptable, whatever the problem was, so they have firm and immediate consequences. Its rare they do either of these things now, but it's taken some time of being firm and consistent with that consequence.

If there is no consequence for the hitting, and it actually gets your 3yo what he wants, which is the smaller child being removed from the vicinity, then he will keep doing it. It's a successful strategy for him at the moment so why would he stop?

The thing that’s worked best for me with mine (4 and 1, so slightly bigger age gap but probably comparable) is telling DS that it’s fine for him to want to play without being interrupted but that he needs to take his toys/puzzle/book somewhere that DD can’t get them, which in practice means he can sit up at the kitchen table or play upstairs in his room. Mostly he now does this without needing to be asked. If he hits DD because of a toy it goes on a shelf for 15 minutes. If he continues to hit (me or DD) it stays up there for longer. If he apologises and ‘makes it right’ by comforting DD/bringing her another toy, he can earn time off the shelf sentence. We started this when he was 3.5 and it has worked well for us. All kids are different, though, and it’s so hard to manage sibling battles when you’re also trying to make dinner/wash up/get some laundry done. Or even when you’re not!

One word - playpen. Put one in the playpen to keep them apart, worked for me (dd1 has sen)

I asked a colleague this years ago. She told me that when her daughters came home, both mid 20s, they could still end up physically fighting. They never liked each other.

Mine stopped trying to kill each other around ages 9 and 12.

The thing is, our home is absolutely tiny- the boys share a room and there isn’t enough floor space to play in there, so the only place they can play is in the sitting room, which isn’t really big enough
for a playpen or dividers. I’ve have ended up arranging the coffee table and other assorted obstacles to split the room in half and keep them apart a few times but it’s not really workable as a long term solution.

Given your DS1 potentially has additional needs can you separate them a little, we have a Dark Den for my daughter with ASD it's awesome and she sits with her lamps in there playing. As DS2 gets older he'll be able to understand and appreciate your older son's boundaries more. With things like DS2 breaking his track etc that would be irritating so I agree moving him. I'd just try my best to give my older child the space he needs until your youngest is old enough to understand.

If it's any help there's 17 months between my daughters, the younger one has ASD and now they co-exist well. Play together, give each other space and manage to share a room with minimal fuss.

I was the eldest in this scenario, and was always blamed regardless of the situation. My younger sibling absolutely knew they were destroying my games, and used to hit and fight. I was taught not to hit back.

Not a good result tbh. When I had dcs, I never expected them to play together, gave them their own space, and their own toys. Almost certainly an over reaction on my part, because of my childhood, but they never ever fought each other.

I would set the eldest up at a table with his toys, keep the youngest on the floor. Or let the eldest play on the floor, whilst the youngest naps or sits in a high chair.

This is one of the things people don't think about when having more children. They need space. Coexisting in small spaces and sharing rooms is always going to lead to more squabbles and conflict. Are you planning to move, or have any more children?

Honestly the only thing that worked for us was waiting a few years. Once they were 3 and 5 they played (mostly) nicely together. Those early years were horrific though. So no useful advice just sympathy!

The answer to both those questions is if and when we can afford to! ~and also it’s not really any of your business~

It’s tough, isn’t it? Our place is not huge either. But even if the boys share a room your eldest can sometimes be encouraged to play independently in there while your youngest plays in the living room. And if you have any kind of dining or kitchen table he can sit up at that and colour (magic water colouring has been a godsend for me) while the little one plays on the floor. I also often have my 1 yr old sitting on my lap at the kitchen table to colour while the 4 yr old practises his writing. Directing hide and seek style games works sometimes. Reading books to the 1 yr old is great too — 4 yr old either plays unbothered or comes over to enjoy the story.

Sorry meant to say play on his bed as not enough floorspace in their room!

One needs to play at the kitchen/dining table, while the other plays on the lounge floor. Either the little one in a high chair, or the older one sat/kneeling at the table.

Get them used to having separate spaces. Get a play tent. Let one play in their room while one plays in your room (if you're sorting washing or whatever).

Basically you need to structure their time.
Try and organise outings one to one- with their dad, GPs etc. they need space and attention.

In the longer term, what worked for mine (4year gap) was fostering two really intense and needy DC, which led mine to buddy up with each other for mutual support! That's a bit extreme though!