To consider a Grade 7 CS post in my current situation?

[SeekingCivil]

DH and I work full time with two children at two different secondary schools (KS3) because they’ve different needs. I work over 4 days, DH 5, with many hours unpaid overtime, getting ready for a professional qualification and we have absolutely no family support.

DH works in a busy private environment and my work is with a local authority so peaks and troughs.

I’m bored with my current post and have spotted some vacancies at grade 7 that would be ideal as my next step up.

I’m concerned about the expectations at that level though. If I have to do my hours or even only a couple of hours per week, I’d manage.
However I have a friend who is a grade 7 and she seems to do more than 12 hour days 5 days a week. Constantly.

If you’re grade 7, is this your reality?

Granted, she works in IT and my role would be in a different field but I just wanted to get a feel for the reality of a grade 7 role.
I’d be willing to do 5 day weeks

I know that it’s not a given I would get the role and it would be useful, even if as interview experience but I dont want to spend time applying if the reality is anything like that. My family doesn’t deserve that.

Hi OP. What sort of grade 7 post is it?

I was grade 7 for 4/5 years and that wasn’t my reality. I worked fairly standard full time hours. Obviously a bit of flexibility needed, but nothing like your friend’s experience.

Also lots of colleagues had part time or compressed hours.

I'm not a G7 but the 7s and 6s in my team don't appear to do particularly excessive hours.
I think it comes down to the job role and in some instances, the department too.

It really depends on the dept. In my dept., I work my hours and can claim back time when I work more due to a busy peak (and so can Grade 6). But other depts are not like that. Which dept. is it - someone may have inside info on the culture?

This is so, so, so wrong. Not having children doesn't mean your spare time is worth less than others.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing they’re Commercial and procurement roles.

I would definitely expect to be flexible. In my current role, I sometime work on my non-working day during extremely busy periods. I dont mind that at all. I also work more hours on a weekly basis during this time but I wouldn’t be able to do that all the time.

Not in mine. I've worked in a few public sector orgs where everyone worked crazy hours, and I've worked my current role where everyone works sensible hours. I have never worked somewhere where being childfree meant I got dumped on. I'd advise you to change jobs if that is what's happening.

That’s really interesting. My friend is single and childless.

Yes, I did suspect this might be the case.

My experience re those who have children and those who don’t is completely opposite to a pps. My experience is that civil service managers (at whatever level) and HR are scrupulous in making sure there isn’t different treatment of those with or without caring obligations

Fwiw in my current role, I don’t think those without family commitments are expected to do more per se. There is an unspoken ‘rule’ that those with children take leave in the school
holidays though. I do find that this without children don’t want their leave them either so it’s win-win

My experience has spanned a few different orgs within the NHS, private sector, and CS - I'm childfree and have always felt that my workload is is equivalent to others at my grade. I take my annual leave outside school holidays, but that's because holidays are cheaper then!

Yes - if you don't have children then taking annual leave at the busiest and most expensive time would be crazy (unless your partner is a teacher or something).

I don’t know much about commercial and procurement. I’m a CS lawyer, now grade 6. I don’t work anything like the hours your friend does, although I’ve noticed a step up in expectations in terms of flexibility and “doing what needs to be done”. At grade 7 for me it was quite clear that you didn’t work when you were meant to be off etc. That said it was a different department

Agree that generally speaking those without children would be daft to take their leave (if planning holidays etc) at the busiest and most expensive time, so it all tends to pan out. The exception is of course Christmas. However, in both places I’ve worked, it’s been made v clear that everyone is on a level playing field, and rightly so.

I have worked in local government for 22 years and was on a Grade 8 for a long time, before being promoted. If your full time hours are 37 hours per week, then this is all you are legally obliged to work.

I have during busy periods done 10-12 hour days, but this was short term to achieve deadlines.

If people allow a culture in their workplace of giving free labour, what employer is going to refuse. Over the years it has become apparent, that if teams sick together and don't allow themselves to be taken advantage of then it won't happen. However, this also means people need to graft hard while their on the clock and not take the piss, but that's a whole other post lol.

I'm a G7 in Commercial. I see more G6s working excessive hours than fellow G7s tbf.

Really interesting perspectives. Thank you all

Just to answer a pp, it is not expected that I work on my day off but it’s sometimes so busy that it makes sense for me to work then. We operate on a flexi time basis so I do get the time off. I just don’t always claim it back.

I agree it’s not a good thing to work when I’m meant to be off but my line manager is very supportive so I don’t mind.

@ChildrenOfTheQuorn we’re in you SEO in your current department and have you noticed a big change in your hours?

I know you said G6s do excessive hours, compared to G7s but just wondered how many you do on average over busier periods vs more ‘standard’ periods . I know it’ll vary

ps sorry I took the children out for a walk. It’s the first time we’ve all been well enough to do that over the break so a very welcome change!

I'm G7 and work a standard week. I do see colleagues working likely well over their standard hours, but I think that can be a person thing rather than a grade expectation. I just never played that game, I don't work for free, and I manage my time appropriately.
Could be a departmental culture issue, surprising how different departments have different expectations.
I don't have kids, I never noticed a difference in expectations.

For me, in very busy times, I'll not do more than 4-5 hours extra a week which I will log as flexi. I don't do it for free! I do have colleagues (SEOs and G7s) who will work until late evening or cancel their days off. That's never been at the behest of the G6 though who has definitely never asked any of us to do that. Like the poster said above, it can be a personal rather than a grade expectation.

I’m a 7 and I work compressed hours, taking a NWD every Friday. Naturally this means I work longer days, and I do occasionally pick up work on a Friday or work later in the evening if I’m particularly busy. I do feel pressure to do this, as I work almost exclusively with senior civil servants/their offices, and they expect things to get done. However, the flip side to this is that in a quieter week I’ll log off slightly earlier or take a longer lunch break, so there is still scope for flexibility.