To refuse to see DM while she is drinking?

[squashedalmondcroissant]

I had a completely different post typed out but I lost it 😡

Short (ish) version:

Just finished visiting family for Christmas and it was a lovely evening and a brilliant last night, we're all laughing together and having a great time.

Fast forward a few minutes and somehow it's descended into chaos because DM and DSis are alcoholics who are screaming at each other over DSis coming out as bisexual. DM is a bit homophobic and refuses to accept it which is where the argument started. She seems to believe DSis is just saying it to wind her up.

Now DF and I are picking up the pieces but DM was definitely in the wrong here and I'm just so fed up with her behaviour when she drinks.

She swears like a sailor, comes out with all sorts of derogatory and hateful things and it's like being around a complete stranger. She doesn't remember saying or doing these things half the time and is horrified the next day when we tell her. She's fallen over and injured herself on occasion too. She's had several alcoholic family members and barely drank at all when I was growing up so this has all happened in the last couple of years when she claimed she was unhappy and getting stressed at work but it's escalated so much I barely recognise her anymore. We used to have wonderful long chats on the phone and now I can barely talk to her at all because she's usually drunk when I call and either repeats herself constantly or can't remember what we're talking about at all.

I know DM had an extremely traumatic and difficult childhood so I think this is part of it and she's never really fully dealt with that. I know she needs help but she won't go to the doctor and honestly I don't know how much more I can take. It seems more and more often my visits are getting ruined by her behaviour to the point where I don't want to come any more. I live several hours away so I know I can't be much practical help.

I really want to support my DF because he needs it badly and I want to support my DM too. I know she needs help but I can't watch her destroy herself and our family anymore. What do I do? Wibu to just withdraw and refuse to visit until she sorts herself out? Can't believe I'm saying this, it breaks my heart to even think it.

Dm is not this angry, intolerant, hateful person, she really isn't. She's kind, thoughtful and loving. It's like her body has been possessed! What can I do?? I want my mum back.

Hi, I’m bumping for a reply. I’m afraid I have no experience of this. Maybe get this moved to the alcohol board?

Usually people recommend Al anon the support group for family of alcoholics.

From my limited experience I feel you are being perfectly reasonable to put in boundaries and not see her when she’s drinking.

Wibu to just withdraw and refuse to visit until she sorts herself out?

Yes, you do. Personal boundaries are very important when dealing with alcoholics. They need to be like you are talking to a child - very simple, very clear, no room for negotiation.

An example of clear boundaries are:

• I never want to see you drunk. Unless you are 100% sober I will leave. You will never be welcome in my home unless 100% sober. If you are not 100% sober you will be told to leave.

The "100% sober" needs to be communicated clearly, because anything in the "drunk but not obnoxious" grey area is impossible to adequately police in terms of expectations. She either stays on soft drinks throughout, or doesnt see you.

You need to be prepared to commit to following through. So prepare to travel several hours to see them and have prepared plans to turn around and leave when uou get there, or soon afterwards. That may mean you and DH thinking about travel arrangements and bring ready to drive at any time. Or plan for last minute public transport (taxi to train station, for example). That would need you taking a public transport to get there too, so you don't leave your car.

Committing to these boundaries needs commitment from you too. Your Mum needs to see how important you take these boundaries by seeing the sacrifice and changes you do to maintain them. She will then be constantly reminded of why shes not drinking then - which is needed. I guarantee she will test your boundaries multiple times - so start drinking and expect you just to tolerate. Exerting those boundaries hard, early and consistently is important

Do what you need to look after yourself. I hope your mum gets better soon.

I would definitely look into Al Anon. If the meetings are hard to get to in person, there is a Cambridge online meet every Monday night. I think you can search it on the Al Anon pages.

With regards to your Dad, while he does need your support it is also necessary to remember that he is enabling her. By enabling her, he is part of the problem.

Talk to your Dad about your boundaries first and without Mum. Offer him opportunities to see you while also maintaining boundaries with Mum.

For example if you're leaving at the beginning of a visit due to Mums drinking, be sure he knows before hand that he can join you in leaving and continue Christmas at your home if he wants to.

Or if Mum and Dad both visit you, think beforehand and plan a way you can make Mum leave in such a way that Dad doesn't have to.

He will most likely consider your Mum his responsibility and so always stay with her and support her, rather than staying with you. That's part of enabling. He can't be blamed or shamed for that, it's understandable, but it is part of the problem. Keep your door always open to him tho (practically and emotionally). Eventually he may be ready.

You need to back away from both alcoholics. You can't fix them and they will happily take you down with them in the process of getting their drug of choice. Don't get caught up in the One Alcoholic = The Bad One and Other Alcoholic = The Good One. Stay away from both.

There's really no point in having the 'I will only see you when you're sober' rule. They'll lie. They'll switch to something less smelly like vodka (even though that bloody stinks as well, they'll have a strong smelling mixer/mouthwash/coffee/crisps to try and cover it), they'll blame headaches, tiredness, a bug, change in the weather, anything to get one over on you where you aren't 100% sure or believe them because you haven't seen them less than shitfaced for ages. Chances are that the times when you think they've been sober are just the times when they've had enough to floor a teetotal elephant just to appear relatively normal.

All you can do is protect yourself and let your father know that when he's had enough, you will help him, but him alone. Not her, not your sister, just him - in separating, not in terms of helping him to enable either of them to continue to drink.

Homophobia isn’t a side-effect of drinking, although your mother can probably keep a lid on it when she’s sober.

yes, I think it would be sensible to withdraw from her when she’s drinking. if you don’t have a problem with her in general just when she drinks, then you need to avoid the problem, which is her when she’s drinking. If she doesn’t like you withdrawing, then she knows what she has to do.

@Annoyingwurringnoise no it's definitely not. She always has been a bit but to a much lesser extent, either that or she's been very good at hiding it her whole life up until now. A very strict catholic upbringing has meant that it's really ingrained into her in a way I don't think she can ever fully change. Everything is enhanced when she's drinking so she gets quite nasty but we've had conversations about the same things when she's sober and she's much less hateful and more tolerant (for want of a better word).

I just don't understand it, it's like her whole personality changes and I don't like this other person she is.

@Polik thank you, some good advice there. It's just so hard. I don't drive so every visit to them necessitates a 5hr train or similarly long and expensive journey but it's getting to the point where I'd rather book a hotel to retreat to and just say I'm not going to hang about if she's drinking. They can't really come to me as my dad is in his 80's and can't manage the drive any more and tbh I wouldn't expect him to do that anyway.

I feel so bad for DF. I feel terrible that I can't do more in a practical sense and that I'm so far away. I feel awful that he is having to deal with the fallout of her bad behaviour yet again. But he does enable her, he does it out of love but he needs to realise that he is just hurting her (or helping her hurt herself) in the long run. They can't afford the amount of money she is wasting on booze.

I'm so angry at her and desperately sad for her at the same time. I know she needs help and I don't want her to feel like I'm punishing her by withdrawing contact but at the same time it's having a terrible effect on my own mental health. I dread seeing her now.