To worry about my DS in secondary school

[Boystomenslowdanceatweddings]

My beautiful son is going to be in secondary school in a few years. I'm already worried about him going and not achieving his potential, and we are consider moving and so need to make a decision about what school we want for him, ideally. School say that he is working at the age appropriate standard, more so in science and maths, but he is easily led. He is 'popular' if you can say that about primary school but he has a good group of friends who regularly come over and play with him.
My worry, frankly, is that he is an academically average white boy from a lower social economic background, with a dad who is basically illiterate and doesn't get why boxing is not something I want for DS. He is a walking statistic! DS is already very much the class clown and easily led. He cares what people think so much already, and I can see him caring about not looking 'swotty' or whatever they call the clever kids these days.
My choices are (we currently live in the inner part of a large city, 1 mile from centre)

• move inwards to get him into a more diverse school which has newly opened, lots of energy from teachers who have been part of the process. They have an entrance exam but not one that goes on pure academic ability, more on enthusiasm for learning and 'natural talent'. He could get in.
• move outwards to the suburbs where there are a few schools which get kids from the more affluent areas. Not sure if they will be more motivated or not.
• send him to the same secondary where he will go if we stay. It's massive and used to be in special measures. Very very invested in sport (he is not sporty), dance (he is not a dancer) and theatre (it's a no). This is the school I work opposite so probably have a negative view of due to seeing the kids come out at 3.15, swaggering across the pavements, no road sense, vaping etc.

For context, I was a bright kid in primary, won awards etc who had a big awakening in secondary that being clever was 'not cool' and so went the other way and ended up being very nearly expelled. Multiple suspensions, police coming over to speak to my mum as I was shoplifting, breaking into school after hours. I just want so much more for him. I managed to pull it back and got ok GCSEs but C and B's when I could have got As and A*s if I'd kept up momentum from primary. I'm now in a dead end job and I just want so much better for him.

I can see why you want to move. You mention only one school option if you move inwards and several school options if you move further out. Also the school if you move inwards is a new school, and has an entrance exam. Without knowing more, moving further out sounds better to me.

It sounds like moving in would be a good option if that is possible.

Is he interested in anything extra-curricular that you could encourage and channel? You say you don't want boxing and I can understand that, but having a focus that keeps him busy after school and at the weekend might be helpful. It would also give him a group of friends who were not just on the street vaping after school.

Is there anyway you could retrain (open university etc?). Seeing you working hard for something you want and hopefully getting it could be the best example/motivation he could get. Children learn by what they see around them!

@Redraddisho27 I have a degree actually (haha!) but it's not opened lots of doors for me. I don't really care if he's not academic but I want him to do something valuable. A trade or something

Move out - more options. @2reefsin30knots makes a good suggestion- get him interested in extracurricular activities - scouts might be a good channel, maybe cubs now? (You might need to volunteer at your new location to get him in if they are full!).

It's a difficult one OP and I get it, but remember who is now and who is when he's in his teens will likely change significantly.

If it helps, I was a lot like your story too, but the one thing I had was work ethic which my parents didn't necessarily teach me but showed me in their actions (working shifts to cover childcare etc) and my career has flown despite leaving education at 16. I know people of so called average intelligence who have too because of work ethic and a great EQ.

I'd also say that one thing to consider is that the single most important thing is that your son is happy and well balanced. Earning lots and achieving things means nothing if you're unhappy and I think focusing on his growth as a person and wellbeing is significantly more important than anything else.

I'm not saying you're wrong as I understand your concerns but don't lose sight of the fact that bringing your son up to be a happy, balanced individual is the single biggest thing you can do for him and one which millions of parents fail at.

He must be 8 or 9yo now? You have already written off sport, dance and theatre for him, assumed he wouldn't go to university and see him as silly and easily led. I think your first job is to raise your own expectations of him and make sure he knows you believe in him.

@2reefsin30knots I wouldn't say written him off but he's not interested in it. He's interested in lots of things (Lego, science, history, maths (for fun!)) but not sports, theatre or dance. I do hope he goes to university but I'm so aware of the road which so many of my male relatives and friends have taken, which is 'lose interest in school, start smoking weed, drop out of education, don't work, play video games all day, develop MH issues' they are the majority not the minority! I'm trying to avoid this happening with my son but I'm very aware that it may be personality and might be beyond my control.

I also think that you need to raise his expectations and start seeking out opportunities for him and schools which will open doors. It sounds as if maybe engineering, mechanics etc might suit him so maybe start watching programmes like that with him, discussing career possibilities, looking for those sorts of clubs. Having goals and ambitions is probably the biggest motivator as a teen.

OK, so really pursue those things hard. Move him on to technic and programmable Lego and discuss the science with him. Take him to science museums, join the library and take out science and history books and read them together. Take him to see historical sites and discuss them in depth. See if there are shows you can take him to in your city (Horrible Histories are coming to my local area soon- the show sounds amazing).

Start doing extra maths with him every week at home and say to him that you are going to work together so he gets Greater Depth in his SATs because that will make sure he's in the top set at secondary school with the other kids who are great at maths. Go into school and ask his teacher what you can work on with him to get his maths up to Greater Depth and make sure he knows you have done that. Ask about the results of every maths test.

Get on top of him being the class clown. Tell him it's not acceptable to be disruptive, communicate with school as often as you have to until this behaviour changes.

These sorts of things will show him that you expect him to be engaged and do well. White boys are a statistic in education, but it's widely recognised that this is due to the attitudes towards education at home. You can choose for him not to be part of that statistic.

I agree with the others that you need to raise your expectations of him. If you feel like it would make him happier and broaden opportunities, try out different potential hobbies and try your best to get him excited about an activity where we can meet people. Is there a grammar school close by? My children’s old school was a feeder school for the local grammar schools and the vast majority went (ie, the academically average kids) because they paid for a tutor from year 4/5.
Also, it’s not all doom and gloom if he goes to the local secondary school. I went to a very rough school on a council estate. The popular lads (those who had arranged fights after school on the field, smoked and took ecstasy pills on the weekend at 15) have mostly done pretty well for themselves. The worst of the lot seem to have the best jobs and I can think of at least 5 of them who have emigrated to Australia or America. I had a lovely group of friends who were high achievers and part of the ‘nice’ crowd. One of them is in prison and another seemingly stuck in a minimum wage job at 35, even though his parents paid for private school. I moved away, and met a boy from Switzerland whose parents were millionaires and moved to where I lived to give him an idyllic upbringing in a safe environment. He died in a drunk driving accident at 17.

You can’t predict the future. We all want what’s best for our kids and do what we can, but a lot is out of our control.

Really good advice thanks, especially the asking the teachers and doing maths at home. I work really hard at the cultural capital stuff, taking him around the world. If he shows an interest in something then I make it a priority to explore this. We're saving up to go to Egypt as he is very interested in that.

I'm a teacher. What is his friendship group like and will they be going to the catchment school? I think it's great that you are so invested in his education. Friendship group and parental engagement are so important. Whatever school you choose, stay involved and interested, support the school, nip any bad behaviour or disengagement in the bud straight away. So many parents make excuses - the teacher doesn't like him, he's dropping that lesson anyway, too many supply teachers, sits next to someone distracting etc - and regret it later.

I’m in a similar position for different reasons OP, and I’m about to look at all the school options as you are. Don’t discount any independent schools nearby if they have bursaries to offer, as well as the state options - and then you’ll have your list of places offering the environment you’d like to see your DS in. You can then go to Open Days and check out the results and uni/job destinations. As others have said stuff outside school can be useful too - different sets of kids - and maybe there are holiday clubs that focus on stuff your son likes (there’s a Lego club here for example)? I also wonder about introducing your DS to aspirational stuff “all this can be yours if you work hard” kind of thing, so that he starts to see there can be more to life than the default option locally.

Is his dad on board with this at all?

Thinking slightly differently on this one. Is there a chance you could encourage your DP/H to go to adult literacy and numeracy classes as the springboard to restarting his personal education? This could be a great influence to your son.

@Lavenderfowl dad... doesn't care. 'I did alright with no grades' etc etc.

That’s tricky then, as otherwise @SophiaLarsen idea might be a great part of the mix. All of these ideas about who your son mixes with and what he sees as normal are key - you sound really switched-on and invested in him which is great; if finances would run to it there are also plenty of magazine subscriptions for bright kids that you could work through together? The Egypt trip sounds perfect as well.

OP, I really admire your post and your attitude towards your son.
I'd start now by challenging that 'swotty is uncool' attitude. Casually say, the nerdy kids are the ones who end up rich, son. They get the best grades, best paid, most interesting jobs and so are more attractive to other people for the rest of their lives - as partners and friends. The ones who are too cool at school to learn end up in dead end jobs and have fewer choices in life.

Be honest about your own mistake. And chat to him about not wanting him to go to a school where it is uncool to work hard. Tell him to have a think about what is cool long term - working hard and succeeding or messing about and scraping a living. Ask about the kids who are top of the class, never tease or mock them with him but ask what interests them.

Increase his wider, incidental learning - at weekends take him to museums, watch age-appropriate documentaries with him and discuss them, read together. get him into the habit of not being shy about being engaged and curious about the world.

Offer him a small reward - cook his favourite tea or a cinbmea visit if he gets a higher grade in his next test.

I went to a school like the one near where you work and what damaged me most was the peer pressure not to work, the utter hatred of enthusiasm for learning. I was so impressed when DC who went to a very academic school, had mates who were genuinely supportive and proud of each other when they worked hard. My DC got more popular when they were top of the class, not less popular. They had friends with high aspirations and a strong work ethic. It has helped them so much.

'cinbmea' should be 'cinema' - sorry - was typing while chatting to DS!

Is there anyone in your wider family or friends who could help with some of this OP, so it’s not just you having to do everything?

Bless you 💐

You really need to start believing in your son more, would you mind telling us the things he is good at?

If I were you, I’d consider moving, but then I’d be a tad bit worried that he would find it hard to adapt.

@Boystomenslowdanceatweddings have you taken him to the British Musuem? They have an Egypt trial. Worth an outing.

@PollyPut yes it was great! We both loved it!

Would you consider boarding? Christ’s Hospital offer high levels of bursaries and would be worth a look.

You're doing fantastic @Boystomenslowdanceatweddings in supporting your DS in his education. Your DS dad (not sure if you live together?) however isn't helping with his attitude and my concern is that as DS gets older he may pull away from your example and want to be more like the male role models he has in his life. So I completely get where you're coming from regarding future worries!

Is there any way DS dad can understand that DS is not destined to have the same experience as him? His previous response to you smacks a bit of being defensive over what may be a sensitive subject for his own educational experience.

I would also investigate the class clown bit - why is DS choosing to interact this way? Is it the way he thinks his peers look up to him? Many boys focus on football or sports so is it a way of him trying to connect in some way? In which case moving to a school where pupils value education might be the best option for the future.