To think GP’s are meant to be lenient with prescribing antibiotics?

[Gem123J]

My DD (4 years old) woke up this morning with a headache, checked her temp and it was 38.6 so gave her calpol at 8am. Couple of hours later she was still complaining of a headache and said her forehead was hot so checked her and she was 39.3 so gave her ibuprofen at around 11am. Checked her temp again before we left the house to go for a walk and she was 38.6 and was happy in herself so we carried on with the walk. While on the walk she was totally fine, happy and running around playing “monsters”! We went for a drive and around 3pm she was very pale, lethargic and just wanted to cuddle and wasn’t herself at all, checked her temp and it was back up and was now 40.1 so gave her calpol and decided to call 111 because she was also complaining of sore throat, headache seemed to be bothering her more because she was wincing and she was also complaining of belly ache, her tonsils look inflamed too. We stripped her down and had a call back off the triage nurse, then the GP and was told to come in for an out of hours GP appointment later in the evening. While waiting for the call back her temp went up to 40.2 and we gave her ibuprofen at 5.30pm.

She didn’t want anything to eat but she did manage to drink and had 2 of the baby cucumbers but didn’t want anything else. Her temp went down with the ibuprofen like it had done earlier. She perked up a bit before the appointment and her temp went down to 38.6 and the GP checked her lungs, checked her ears and her mouth but didn’t seem to be concerned about her tonsils and just said it’s most likely viral.

I am obviously a bit concerned because her temp had got so high even with alternating calpol/ibuprofen every 2-3 hours (we were told to alternate off her GP last time she had a high temp that was still rising last year). And there have been local cases of strep a and I thought that GP’s were told to have a low threshold for prescribing antibiotics because viral and bacterial infection symptoms are indistinguishable in the very beginning.

Obviously I’m going to keep a close eye on her tonight but it is a bit scary when you read stories of children who were told they had a viral infection and were seriously ill a few hours later. My friend took her son to their GP last week and was told he had a viral infection, she wasn’t happy with the response and had husband to take him the following day and they swabbed him and prescribed antibiotics and it came back as strep a. I know not all cases are fatal but should I have pushed for the GP to take a swab? All he said was keep an eye out and if she still has a high temp in 5 days to take her back. Has anyone experienced the same thing lately?

Obviously if I thought my daughter was seriously unwell then I wouldn’t be waiting around, it’s just crazy how one minute she looks absolutely awful, but perks up and looks like a different child the next and is just up and down like that!

And honestly, I didn’t question the credibility of an entire profession based on an article. Yes I showed some concern with what he said but I did not bash any GP, I was still concerned, based on many articles, not “an” article. And apologies for the title of the thread, this is a forum, I don’t think many proof read their post before sharing.

Well you didn’t dose every two hours (pain relief) according to your post! You took her outside for a walk rather than resting indoors…

Or maybe she was well enough for a walk, but yet you still think she should have had ab’s?

Unless you are now also going to say that is wrong and I’ve misread that too 🙄

@Gem123J because you took your ill child out rather than let her rest, then took her to a face to face GP appointment when you thought she might have a highly infectious illness (despite not having the symptoms other than a temperature), complained you haven't been given antibiotics for something that isn't bacterial and are berating actual doctors on the thread for backing up what the first doctor said.

You're also making all your decisions based on news articles rather than actual professional advice.

My son had the same symptoms at the beginning of last week. He is never ill normally and completely wiped out with this bug. He was fine 48 hours later.

Fever isn't something we should worry about as parents. It's the body's immune system doing its job. My threshold for seeking help is pretty high (I have an entire family of unsympathetic nurses) but even so, if she was well enough to go for a walk and her temperature was coming down with medication then I wouldn't be worried.

A couple of weeks ago, in our area, high temp for 2 consecutive days plus sore throat = automatic prescription of AB over the phone. Not sure if this is still the case.

Not everyone is an ignorant demander of AB, often AB do clear up ongoing coughs etc. as they are secondary infections after a viral cold or similar.

On the other hand, a few months ago, my dc was admitted to hospital with an infected wound as the GP practice wouldn't see us, not even the nurse. It took a round of AB to clear it. The pharmacists referred us urgently to A&E after assessing dc. We had a follow up appointment with the practice nurse who argued with us over the phone, making us feel like we shouldn't have gone to A&E 😂😂😂and questioning the need for AB (when the A&E doctor had prescribed it) 😕.

Posters saying doctors (or nurses) are always right make me laugh (bitterly).
The sheer ignorance of some of the GPs and practice nurses regarding e.g. Eczema and the patronising and judgmental tone is digesting. The worst part is that rather than examine the issue, diagnosing and prescribing, many are just judging and guessing.

Thank goodness there are some stellar GPs as well. Many have never learnt any 'bedside manners'.

Glad to hear you are not a GP Quincy. Hopefully only deal with unconscious patients or in an underground lab. Any doctor skilled in communication should be able to read between the lines, not just literally interpret a headline.

In the ops defence, we are also in Wales and it has been made out by schools and local media that any child with potential strep a symptoms will be given antibiotics. personally I like to see how things pan out with my kids before rushing to a gp but scarlet fever, tonsillitis etc are rife here.

The Drs manning the ooh in hospital are the local GPs, they do shifts on a rotation from the whole are which the hospital serves.

Oh absolutely. I was told that my DS's severe, weeping eczema when he was 4 months old couldn't possibly be due to a dairy intolerance, by a GP who said there was no link at all.

Guess which child has a lactose intolerance and whose eczema cleared up as soon as they self weaned themselves off formula.

Dearie me!
Are you able to read and assimilate my post by way of response to specific information.

You’d probably faint when I tell you who the main body of my patient group is, and I am pretty sought after too.

Any more childish ad hominems from you? Am at the vet( thought it best to let an expert treat my dog rather than read up about it and make my own diagnosis), so have plenty of time.

It’s amazing how many people do actually want the skills and knowledge of a trained clinician - doesn’t surprise me of course.

YABU but it’s always unpleasant when our little ones are poorly. I fully appreciate it’s even more concerning based on the media information but low threshold doesn’t mean “no threshold”. The GP examined your child and made a clinical decision. Your daughter doesn’t have any classic symptoms suggestive of needing antibiotics. If you’re worried or she changes presentation, of course, she may need seeing again.
Antibiotics aren’t a magic cure. They come with side effects and the longer term societal side issue of antibiotic resistance. Mine is a similar age to yours and is on penicillin for bacterial tonsillitis. He’s miserable with diarrhoea and thrush - almost as bad / worse as the actual infection itself!

If she’s not any better/getting worse just go back. My DC was initially sent away with those symptoms as ‘probably viral’ but is now on his second lot of antibiotics for what turned out to be a bacterial infection. Between the 3 drs we’ve seen there has been disagreement on cause and length of treatment.

I am certainly moving on after this. Mumsnet is not the best place to share concerns it seems. Not once did I bash any GP’s, I just stated what I had read elsewhere, take that up with the Telephraph, GP Online, Public Health, etc. if you disagree, please don’t shoot (bash/berate) the messenger!

You read my OP and made assumptions about me. You mentioned I failed to administer medicine appropriately because I didn’t alternate every 2 hours? From what I understand it shouldn’t be every 2 hourly for children (unless a doctor has personally advised), and by this point I hadn’t been personally advised so I tried to leave as much of a gap as possible, approx. 3 hours. So I wouldn’t accuse someone who did the same as lacking in administering basic care, that is a big accusation to throw around by the way!!!!

I shouldn’t have to explain myself to you, but for the last time (for future readers), because I am definitely coming of this thread, even Mumsnet because it’s proven to be not the place to share concerns and could actually make parents not seek help because of how they are judged; my daughter had a slight temp and a headache, gave calpol, her temp was rising (although still relatively low grade), gave ibuprofen (approx. 3 hours after calpol), this brought her temp down, she was bored in the house, she wasn’t unwell at that time and had been eating and drinking well up to that point, only complaint had been a headache, decided to go for a short walk, a couple of hours later she was lethargic, pale, temp was 40.2, stripped her down to a vest and underwear, gave calpol and called 111 as per advice regarding strep a guidance (because she was now complaining of a sore throat also, and her tonsils were inflamed, headache still there, and she also complained of belly ache, I’m sure I mentioned this on the OP), 111 had the nurse call back, the nurse advised that the GP would call back, hour later GP calls and wants to see her face to face. We went to see the GP face to face he said it is likely viral and to keep an eye out for any rashes etc. and if she becomes unwell or we’re concerned to call back.

I stupidly made a post that I didn’t title correctly about what I had read in several articles regarding strep a, and shared my concerne and wanted to see if anyone else had a similar experience. Did not bash any GP’s. Did not question their credibility, just a bit confused as I thought what I said in the title. I personally don’t think they should be prescribing willy nilly as @Quincythequince assumed. I just simply referenced what I had read and also having a friend who had a similar experience (son was told his infection was viral, but then was confirmed strep a and required antibiotics), and simply wanted to know if other mothers had been in the same situation and what the outcome was.

Had I known that I should articulate all the information as accurate and informative as possible on the OP of a thread I would have done so, but I didn’t think people would jump to conclusions and make assumptions unless I posted every single bit of information on the OP, I didn’t know that’s how forums work. Anyway I am not doing this anymore, thanks to all those who showed a little empathy.

He should have given you the script to cash in if it developed

GPS are general practitioners and they often make mistakes.

Our gut instinct is something I've often heard medic's refer too as an important part of assesment.

Op don't be put off by one snotty poster and keep listening to your gut instinct

2nd lot of abiotics certainly shouts viral. If it was bacterial the abiotics would have worked.

Why do you keep saying you’re following NHS WALES guidance but keep showing English websites? Lots of inconsistencies hmm.

A lot of people don't understand that antibiotics are for bacterial conditions, not viral conditions. I wouldn't expect them to be prescribed unless there is evidence the condition is bacterial, obviously a swab will be the only way to confirm that but if it turns out not to be bacterial and they prescribed them on the off chance then they aren't going to work anyway and will have been wasted. People wouldn't demand any other types of medicine with no evidence they had the relevant condition and they wouldn't get them without tests.

I hope your daughter feels better soon OP. It’s horrible when your kids are ill, you feel so helpless and there are so many worrying bugs doing the rounds. Hang in there. Please ignore any harsh comments on here and focus on your child instead. A high temperature is so worrying but her body is working hard to fight this thing and I hope she will very soon be on the mend. ♥️

An ad hominem argument is valid when the point is to highlight how a person is being so unpleasant. Someone has come here for support and understanding. You have adopted an unnecessary bullying and unkind tone. Which I found surprising for a doctor. Especially for someone who claims to be in such high demand. Though perhaps not that surprising for someone who feels the need to make such a claim.

People wouldn't demand any other types of medicine with no evidence they had the relevant condition and they wouldn't get them without tests.

People wouldn't demand any other types of medicine with no evidence they had the relevant condition and they wouldn't get them without tests.

sorry posted to soon.
Oh trust me they most definitely do. Dr Google has not been good for patients or doctors. I'm all for shared decision making. But equally I have 10 years of training and 20 years of experience. I dont make decisions for fun or to cause harm or inconvenience. I make them because they are what I feel is correct at the time in the best interests of the patient (and sometimes the community/society). I remain baffled why people feel doctors do things to cause harm.

2nd lot of abiotics certainly shouts viral. If it was bacterial the abiotics would have worked.

That's not always true. Lots of people need a 2nd course, especially those with more severe infections or, you know, people who've built up resistance from being prescribed antibiotics they don't need!

Sorry not really in my almost 30 years as a doctor.
Not unless it a very serious infection when you are almost certainly in hospital.
Those who come back repeatedly "because antibiotics aren't working", IME almost always have lingering viral symptoms.
The demand for antibiotics us causing untold harm and I feel actual dread for my children's futures.
Another sign of the instant gratification and selfishness of the current population.

I am not being unpleasant and there is no bullying about it.
People just don’t like being told they’re wrong.

My area of expertise was mentioned in response to your comment to me.
A Perfectly reasonable retort under the circumstances (although you’ll note I am not upset by this and don’t feel bullied)

Food for thought perhaps!

Anyway, what are you…the OPs minder?

My point remains; GPs are there for a reason and are indeed skilled individuals who have to now fend of Dr ‘educated by Google’ constantly.

Tiresome and irritating at best.