To not fully understand the outrage of the gender recognition reform?

[iamop]

Leaving my views at the door on this subject....I am just hoping to gain some clarification on one main point for my own information.

Opponents of the gender reform bill claim that this will effect single sex spaces. I was appalled hearing this but I've done some reading. And it would seem (unless I'm getting this wrong) that due to the equality act 2010, a man claiming to be a female or vice versa can already use single sex spaces due to gender identity being a protected characteristic under this act. And as the equality act is a UK wide legislation implemented under labour, this has nothing to do with the Scottish gov. So am I correct in saying, that actually the gender reform bill won't actually affect single sex spaces any more so than the equality act already does?

I completely disagree with rapists etc being able to change genders and therefore force their victims and the courts to call them by a different pronoun. I think the age of 16 to be able to do this is bonkers, and I think the SNP have lost my vote moving forward.

I was just looking for some clarification to my main point above to be explained by people smarter than myself

Thanks

The issue for me is that it makes it significantly easier for predatory men to access women and young girls.

This is harming trans rights because how do we know which men accessing women's spaces are the safe ones? We don't, so we do what we need to do to keep ourselves safe as we do in countless other situations.

I know that statistically I'm probably going to be okay walking home at night but I still don't do it because there is a small chance it won't be.

Pushing back on this is our way of keeping ourselves safe.

@Burgoo

Yes there have always been Transwomen, few and far between, and generally respectful of the space they are in and just getting on with their life.

Now we have men with beards and stereotypically male clothing wandering into primark changing rooms and recording women or flinging open the curtains so they can get a look.

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/womans-warning-after-creep-puts-camera-phone-in-doncaster-primark-changing-room-3869412

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-63052284

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-62616681

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/22/police-officer-who-filmed-woman-getting-changed-primark-avoids/

Now we have men who have history of sexually abusing women being welcomed into rape crisis and domestic abuse services.

www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-boasts-of-harassing-women-in-crisis-shelter/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11392601/Transgender-paedophile-caught-duping-staff-71-day-stay-domestic-violence-refuge.html

We have rape crisis services being vandalised and threatened with closure for daring to offer a female only service

globalnews.ca/news/5824446/vancouver-rape-relief-womens-shelter-graffiti/

This isn't men who want to live as women, this is men who want to intimidate and have power over women.

I'm suspecting Sealioning at this point. Everything has been clearly answered

I suspected that from the beginning tbh. But, this thread is in AIBU which means it is more visible to people who don't make a habit of being on FWR and the replies are very clear so I suspect it's bringing in alot of sunlight.

I have read through every post in this thread and it actually makes me feel hopeful. The “vast majority” (to borrow a phrase used by a PP) agree that what is happening is wrong and have clearly and unashamedly articulated why. This is a huge difference from even a couple of years ago when women were shamed into voicing their opinions behind closed doors for fear of being labelled a bigot. Women are waking up to what is happening and won’t allow it to continue without a fight.

I suspect that many women on here have shared a changing room with a trans-woman in the past and never even known.

Oh, we've known. I have clocked every single transwoman who has ever crossed my path. They're always quite obviously blokes in bad makeup and shite clothes.

This will no doubt be deleted but I don't care. My compassion died long ago.

Shared a space with a transwoman and not noticed? Or noticed and chosen not to show any sign of having done so - for fear, anxiety, embarrassment?

And all that racism? How can you not see that a black woman is a woman. A transwoman is not. And yes, because TRAs have pushed so hard, because Stonewall have lobbied to dismantle sex as a protected characteristic ( there on their website and part of their submission to a government committee) many women are now saying no to ALL MEN in female spaces.

And can you not see how you contradict yourself? Mythical harm, oh except, of course, for a few instances. Really? You think that is logical? Some men who identify as transwomen have harmed women. Transwomen are men and commit, provably, the same statistical rider of violent offences against women as every other man.

As for the 'bring it to my DMs' who the hell do you think you are? Someone 'speshul'? Women have no need to hide their discussions about men, male violence against women and girls or the reality of transwomen and violence and the very real, already happening violence committed by them.

And all of that is apart from the utter illogic of allowing some men to be women in legislation that traduces health care, social and medical research, bastardises all social and medical statistics and removes while areas of life from women, e.g. sport.

Wake up!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=24&reply=122466828

not sure if someone has already posted this - let’s get the equality act updated so sex means biological sex - need 40k more signatures to get it debated in parliament

You say that a trans woman who has committed sexual offences against women shouldn’t be placed in a women’s prison, and I agree.

On the other hand, I think that a trans woman who transitioned 20 years ago, has had full gender reassignment surgery, has been a victim of sexual violence at the hands of men, and is in prison for financial fraud, should clearly be in a women’s prison.

The are many cases in between that are less clear cut. The important thing is careful risk assessment.

Full gender reassignment is still limited. It cannot make a man a woman.

Perhaps read this interview with the "woman" sex offender with a GRC and tell us we shouldn't be outraged and concerned for the safety of our daughters.

www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/exclusive-transgender-fugitive-who-spurred-wi-spa-riots-bares-all/

Full gender assignment surgery? So 2 - 5ish percent (and shrinking) of all transwomen.

At least know what you are talking about.

The vast majority of all of those long term transwomen have no genital surgery. The current transitioners even less so

And what careful risk assessment?

We have sex segregated spaces for the dignity of all and the safety of women and girls. We already have a societally accepted risk assessment that acknowledges the increased risk posed to all women by all men.

Why are you trying to create a new caste for some men?

*"Woman" sex offender at the heart of the wi spa controversy.

For those that are not aware. The women and mothers complaining about a sex offender with an erect penis where them and their daughters were changing were attacked as transphobes and bigots.

The "woman" has been arrested.

Self ID and the GRA are a huge risk to females. We are called bigots for calling out blatant sexual offences.

there is absolutely no reason that makes it ok for any man to feel so entitled as to use womens facilities, however he identifies. They are there for a reason, we don’t want males of any description in them, and all males should respect that.
where is the pressure on males to be kind

Iain Huntley was ONE man. Yet DBS check were introduced.

Dunblane was ONE incident, yet a all handguns were banned.

Because for DECENT people the threshold of harm is zero. That's what safeguarding is all about.

Fair enough. Do we know what percentage of transwomen are sex offenders?

You say that a trans woman who has committed sexual offences against women shouldn’t be placed in a women’s prison, and I agree.

On the other hand, I think that a trans woman who transitioned 20 years ago, has had full gender reassignment surgery, has been a victim of sexual violence at the hands of men, and is in prison for financial fraud, should clearly be in a women’s prison.

The are many cases in between that are less clear cut. The important thing is careful risk assessment.

You're making a distinction based on the nature of the offence, surgery, time since transition and history of violence perpetrated against someone rather than sex. If we are not segregating on the basis of sex and given what we know about violence and sexual assault in male prisons then why not house all vulnerable males in the female prison estate? Because it would be a seriously dangerous idea, women are not human sheilds for vulnerable males.

The number of transwomen who have surgery or take hormones is tiny compared to the number who claim to be transwomen.

Stats earlier in the year stated that 60% of men who say they are women were in jail were there for sex offences as opposed to 18% of men who do not say they are women who are in jail for sex offences.

So 3 times the number. The more that we dilute the stats by calling men women the less likely anyone can report actual figures which works in favour of those sex offenders. Especially if some are not included in the male stats but are starting to bump up the female stats.

We have no idea how many transwomen there are but of the prison population we know that 50 - 60% of transwomen in prison have at least one conviction for sexual offences. In the general male prison population 15 - 20% are sex offenders. Approx 2% of the female prison population are sex offenders.

Do you think it's possible that sexual predators are pretending to be trans? The problem with self ID is that they are trans if they say so and there is nothing you can do to prove otherwise. The risk assessment tool used for male sex offenders isn't used for transwomen for some inexplicable reason which is how a male sex offender ended up in a female prison where they raped and sexually assaulted 4 women within a matter of days.

It's got fuck all to do with gender dysphoria.

It's all about Independence. The SNP has created a raging-boil of corrupt legislation to force a head on collision with Westminster . Westminster will lance the GRA boil to avoid social chaos. SNP hope this will promote a political division that results in a Referendum and a Yes vote.

In fact they've shot themselves in the foot. Already, women in Scotland are outraged at how the GRA has been shoved hrough. We ain;t seen nothing yet. Self-ID (full set of new ID) is set to become a social, legal, financial nightmare for the whole of Scotland and far beyond. Ultimately the death knell of politicians who supported it.

Butterfingers Keir just dropped his woke ball down the sewer. Probably just handed Sunak the next election.

We don't and can't. Firstly we have no idea how many transwomen there are in the UK - see the Stonewall definition for some idea of the problem.

Then the sex of offenders are recorded according to declaration - see various media reports, court appearances and ONS statements about not being able to supply stats by sex now gender has entered the mix. For example men with a GRC committing sex crimes are arrested, tried, sentenced and imprisoned as females.

And then see again the issues around who is imprisoned as a women because they make a statement, no GRC required.

This is already happening, as though Self ID already exists. You can start to see it in the ONS data now, if you choose to assume that some male crimes are recorded as female ones rather than women are suddenly committing increasing numbers of sex crimes. But we cannot know, as some data is just not recorded.

The fact is FEELING vulnerable doesn't mean you ARE vulnerable. I think we need to move away from this idea that "if I feel something it is valid" to a more objective, measured "knowledge".

The irony

We don’t and we can’t

Thanks. It does seem that many of these issues are ultimately manageable through better research and monitoring

I completely agree.
This piece of legislation will be the final nail in the SNP coffin.
I voted "Yes" last time. I'll never vote SNP again.