To not fully understand the outrage of the gender recognition reform?

[iamop]

Leaving my views at the door on this subject....I am just hoping to gain some clarification on one main point for my own information.

Opponents of the gender reform bill claim that this will effect single sex spaces. I was appalled hearing this but I've done some reading. And it would seem (unless I'm getting this wrong) that due to the equality act 2010, a man claiming to be a female or vice versa can already use single sex spaces due to gender identity being a protected characteristic under this act. And as the equality act is a UK wide legislation implemented under labour, this has nothing to do with the Scottish gov. So am I correct in saying, that actually the gender reform bill won't actually affect single sex spaces any more so than the equality act already does?

I completely disagree with rapists etc being able to change genders and therefore force their victims and the courts to call them by a different pronoun. I think the age of 16 to be able to do this is bonkers, and I think the SNP have lost my vote moving forward.

I was just looking for some clarification to my main point above to be explained by people smarter than myself

Thanks

Yes.

He has to 'live as a woman' for three months. No one has said what that is. So basically he just has to say that he has.

He can also do this at 16, so those creepy boys at school can get access to the girls' changing rooms.

I don’t fully get the outrage over it either… I went to college with someone who was born male but identified female, and this individual I never felt threatened by. They simply felt they had been born in the wrong body. They weren’t a sexual predator…

Although personally I would prefer public toilets to be kept as ‘ladies’ and ‘men’s’ and not shared…

I went to college with someone who was born male and identified as male (or at least would have done if that was a thing then.) This individual I never felt threatened by. To the extent i got undressed in front of him and shared a bed with him. He wasn't a sexual predator.

However, that's only him. I have felt threatened by other males, including the transwoman who lives locally. I have been assaulted by other males. I have been raped by other males.
So the fact that one male that I was at college with was lovely and not a sexual predator is irrelevant really.

Because laws should not be made around someone’s nice mates.

There is a whole thread on the sex and gender board with the crimes of males who we are constantly told don’t commit crimes at similar rates to others of their sex. There is no evidence at all that transitioned males lose their propensity to commit crime compared to other males. Do you know the % of males who identify as women in Uk prisons currently who have committed sex offences? So why would any male be placed in a female prison or shelter ? My husband is a lovely man, would it be ok for him to go into a female prison estate or a shelter? If not, why not? Feelings?

There is no ‘wrong body’. Which marginalised group would say this? How does that work even? Do you believe in wrong brains ? Did I get a brain destined for someone else?

You say that you would prefer single sex toilets, why shouldn’t you have those? Why do your needs come second to a male who wants access to that space?

It's disgraceful. My view is if you still have a penis while dressing and identifying as a woman you shouldn't be allowed in female only spaces. I am amazed that female politicians voted for this shit.

I’m not sure why maybe their brains are wired differently? I don’t think it’s something they necessarily choose (maybe like how people don’t choose to be gay, they either are or they’re not?) …

And I wouldn’t mind someone who truly identifies as female (born male) using the toilet, assuming they are sitting down to use the toilet (as a woman would) or just using the mirror to do their make up or something… What I don’t like is going into the toilets to discover the seats have all been pissed on by men, let’s face it it’s common fact mens loos are more gross than the ladies 🤢

I don’t fully get the outrage over it either… I went to college with someone who was born male but identified female, and this individual I never felt threatened by. They simply felt they had been born in the wrong body. They weren’t a sexual predator…

These changes in law don't just apply to your mate.

Google Katie Dolatowski or Barbie Khardashian and perhaps you'll understand the issue.

And remember it's not just your rights to single sex spaces you're merrily giving away here. It's female prisoners, abuse victims, the disabled, old and sick. Think about the impact this has on them - when they can no longer rely on spaces free from men or request female carers.

I’m not sure why maybe their brains are wired differently? I don’t think it’s something they necessarily choose

And which other bodies would you say this about? Someone with a reason to not want to be born who they were? Do you understand that this ‘wrong body’ narrative is not only misleading but also could be considered very offensive by some people?

No one is born in the wrong body. The UK education department has ruled that this narrative is harmful to be taught to our children.

War of attrition.

And I wouldn’t mind someone who truly identifies as female (born male) using the toilet, assuming they are sitting down to use the toilet (as a woman would) or just using the mirror to do their make up or something… What I don’t like is going into the toilets to discover the seats have all been pissed on by men, let’s face it it’s common fact mens loos are more gross than the ladies 🤢

Are you honestly saying you only care because of a cleanliness issue? So the impact on women and girls who have been victims of male violence don’t matter?

And there is no ‘truly’ trans people. We have been told that people are who they say they are. It is transphobic to say ‘truly’ trans. How do you know who is and isn’t anyway? Is there a test for it? Do they wear a sign?

Do you know there is a growing porn category of males who have hormonally or surgically developed breasts masturbating with their fully functional penises in female toilets? There is even examples on Twitter of a couple where a mother had their children in the next toilet while this male videoed their masturbation. This is not made up, this is actually happening.

This is not made up, this is actually happening.

How many times is ok for a male to either abuse a woman or child, or cause them distress with their presence in an expected single sex space, or make a woman or child part of their sex acts unknowingly before laws are strengthened to exclude all males over the age of about 8?

Thank you for explaining this. Its a horrific situation when we know the lengths perpetrators will go to.

Having had a female family member in prison recently, I am horrified that there are people in this world that would play so casually with her safety and her peace of mind.

I'm not surprised by the disregard for female prisoners at all. You may remember the document written by activists, and discussed at length on the feminist board, where they set out their strategy for advancing the self ID cause. They thought they should start with eroding the principle of single sex prisons because that would be the most challenging thing to accomplish and if they could make changes there then everything else would, by comparison, be easy. I think they understood that most people think they will never end up in prison and some people would even take the view that if you broke the law then whatever happened to you in prison was tough shit.

The prison issue is the one I find most upsetting. I'm not a soft touch when it comes to sentencing in our criminal justice system but I abhor cruelty and I don't understand how incarcerating women with rapists could be described as anything else. Even if a female prisoner enters the system without any of the vulnerabilities we know are common among the female prison population then she becomes vulnerable by virtue of the fact she is entirely dependent on the state for her safety. If we judge society by how it treated it's most vulnerable members then incarcerating women with rapists makes us no better than savages.

I don't care if there is only 1 male in the female prison estate, it's one too many.

YABU. It’s incredibly dangerous for women and children.

It occures to me that the ability to change all ID documents ( new name, new gender, new birth certificate, passport,drivers license, work documentation) on your own say-so offers carte-blanche to anyone with a past history (or responsibilities) they want to escape.

   How is that going to play out for  border control,  court and police records,  DVLA, land registry;  financial insitutions, employers and landlords seeking references?   Or for people seeking a divorce,  child maintenance,  debts,  from  a person who   only needs three months to  acquire a whole new identity?

Okay so I might be dumb, but I'm still not fully understanding how GRCs are going to affect single sex spaces. From everything I'm reading and researching, men who identify as women WITHOUT a GRC can already use single sex spaces just by identifying with that gender. The Gender Reform states that it doesn't change the legislation already in place for that. So, yes I agree, it's not something that should be passed due to...well the sheer ridiculousness of it all really.

But I'm struggling to get my head around how this new legislation will impact single sex spaces? If there's already trans females in female prisons then do they all have GRC's? Or do they simply identify as female? If they all have GRC's then surely the problem lies with GRC's in the first instance, rather than reforms being made to that initial legislation?

Okay yes, they want to lessen the time requirement and they want to extend it to 16 year olds, it's ridiculous of course. It will make it easier for people to obtain GRCs. HOWEVER, how does this affect single sex spaces?

Why have you just copied and pasted your earlier message - which has already been explained and answered?

This is the thing that gives the whole game away, isn’t it?

All I have is mine, and all you have is mine.

I’m so sorry, women and girls of Scotland. This is just outrageously awful.

I noticed people where disappointed in Elaine sporting a merkin in the scottish parliament. Why?
She was subdued if anything. People should be blowing it up (figuratively speaking)

Some of the following perhaps: having periods, being pregnant, giving birth, living with the ongoing health effects of these, being a mother, going for smear tests, living with the ever present worry of being raped or assaulted when out alone after dark, being slightly patronised when buying a car? Not sure there's much else that really defines living as a woman. It's really only the biological aspects that are part of the common experience, and not all women experience those either. Men and women live pretty similar lives in many ways.

It hasn't though.

If there's already trans females in female prisons then do they all have GRC's? Or do they simply identify as female? If they all have GRC's then surely the problem lies with GRC's in the first instance, rather than reforms being made to that initial legislation?

Humans cannot change sex so there is no such thing as a trans female, it's the same as saying a male female.

You are correct that the problem lies with codifying a legal fiction, it's bad law. The major difference now is that there are no safeguards, literally any man can claim to be a transwoman. The GRR does not define what "living as a woman means" so a transwoman could look like any other man. You can't ask to see a GRC; are you going to gamble being charged with a hate crime by challenging the naked bloke in the showers at your gym who may or may not have a GRC. The flood gates have been opened.

Stonewall have spent the last 7 years misrepresenting the EA 2010 so many organisations who paid for their training incorrectly believe that gender and gender identity are protected characteristics and that it's unlawful to segregate facilities and services by sex. Add in the bullying by trans activists it's easy to see why many organisations find it easier not to make themselves a target. Women have been raped in domestic abuse refuges in countries where self ID is law or culturally accepted.

Trans activists successfully campaigned to have Vancouver Rape Crisis defunded because they maintained a female only policy but not before they had nailed a dead rat to the door, vandalised the building with offensive slogans and threats and posted the entrails of a dead animal through the letter box. Lovely people, coming soon to women's spaces near you.

You shouldn’t be allowed in single sex spaces if you are a male full stop.

With or without a penis - still a male bodied person.

Okay thank you for explaining, this makes it clear to me.

The one question I have now though is if all you have to do is say you’ve been living as a female (WTF…) then presumably this removes any responsibility from the state for helping you manage your non-medical condition, because it’s simply a preference.

How can you say with on hand you don’t need a medics diagnosis but then expect things paid for by the medical system (NHS Scotland in this instance).

Bit of an own goal maybe in that respect for all these men cos playing women?!

The question about health care has just reminded me of this (which appears to be genuine) -

www.tumblr.com/edinburghath/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto