If everyone was taxed an extra pound, would that save the NHS?

[EddyF]

Might be a silly question but if you don’t ask, you don’t learn!

I have just a post elsewhere (not MN) where people are discussing their wait time to be seen at A&E and it’s quite shocking.

I think people would be In favour of paying a slight tax increase of a minimal amount such as £1/1.50 from tax to try and fix the NHS. Is this unrealistic?

I have attended a hospital in the US, and the experience was such a stark contrast to the feel of hospitals here. I know obviously because the US is not ‘free’ like the NHS. I just remember it being like a spa service.

This. It’s always been a black hole.

@LexMitior

Medical devices on the NHS are nowhere near as good as privately available hearing aids, mobility scooters, dental treatment, glasses, Physio, therapy, recouperation.

Exactly why the NHS should start to offer "better" options at a price, so that the NHS gets the profit instead of private providers. But political dogma of equality won't let that happen. Instead everyone has to be given the same (often substandard) service/products.

Nope. Just throwing good money after bad.

There is a similar scheme in the UK already whereby a spouse can transfer £1260 of their unused allowances to the other spouse provided that they are not subject to tax greater than at the basic rate,.

You need to know about it though and claim it

Taxing the ultra rich isn't the answer. They will just move their money elsewhere and continue to fund their own private healthcare without paying into the system at all.

As a PP points out - all the 80+ olds who retired at 60 haven't paid in enough to cover the costs. If the NHS was a Pension scheme there would be a three yearly actuarial valuation to establish how much we should be paying in... I suspect we'd never be able to retire.

I am in very a fortunate position of being a 36year old high earner with a good (local government) pension but honestly I am at a point where I begrudge paying any more into a broken system. At the risk of sounding like Jeremy Clarkson Everyone my age feels the same way... (well not everyone but certainly a lot of friends in our social circle)

Monthly salary.

@Badbadbunny - it sounds good but for political reasons I think it will never happen.

The dream of private medicine is disease that the patient makes for themselves and is back seeing a doctor every week. So much money!!!

The inverse is true. This is the nightmare for public medicine.

After tax and NI someone on 100k takes home £6k a month before private pension deductions. They're doing fine.

Indeed. The tax system needs to change before the NHS funding/model is reformed. Unfortunately, neither party has either the guts nor the competence to deal with the big issues. So both continue to tinker around the edges, making ruinously expensive minor changes that simply don't work, because they're incapable of making the big changes needed.

Our tax system is a shambles. Far too many anomalies. And as you say, a fairer system would be based on household income rather than independent taxation. Of course, that was another political bodge. Women wanting to be taxed independently, so that's what they were given, far too simple though, as we lost the long standing idea of a husband/wife having joint taxation, which did have advantages. Competent politicians would have found a way of keeping household taxation, but with more power to the woman, as previously it was always the man with the "power" when it came to tax. As often the case, throwing the baby out with the bathwater because they weren't capable of coming up with a modern system!

Something to think about:

America has the reputation for over the top medical care. But when I taught at uni there, most employees and our families received medical care through kind of a mini NHS organised by the university medical centre, with associated GP surgeries in the local communities. I think my family paid about USD 80-100/month as a standing fee.

Care was superb, of a much higher standard than the NHS. However, there was a small copay - about USD 15 over 10 years ago - for every visit. (Vaccinations and such were free. There were essentially no further fees for hospitalisation, and the norm was a private or semi-private room.) For those who can afford it, I agree with@XingMing that this is reasonable but I think that, as in France, it should be means tested.

Also, and this is tricky, IVF and gender reassignment were not covered expenses. The medical centre had experts, but you had to go private. Probably the NHS currently covers other things that this system did not. I really don’t know what I think of this, given our current crisis with people dying for lack of basic health provision. (Yes, I know it is complicated)

It’s hard. I would like to see studies on the plusses and minuses of copays within the NHS given that France, other successful European health systems and America all use them successfully and have better health outcomes than we do. People say dismissively that copays cost more than they are worth, but no one has given me a source.

It's not enough though is it? Surely you can see that £700 pm is unlikely to be sufficient to cover the cost of the schools, roads, policing and health care you make use of and set something aside for your pension, even if you are a low user of these services. The vast majority are not net contributors.

That can't be right.

Your first grand or so a month should be subject to no tax as it's below the personal allowance. You're basically being taxed 50% on the remainder which should be basic rate.

You're missing the point. Because "they're doing fine", they don't need to do more, and may feel that they can afford to work less. Hence leading to shortages of dentists and doctors who reduce their hours or take early retirement.

People need to be incentivised to work more, not punished. UK PLC is worse off overall if people who can work more decide to work less - the Treasury get less tax and employers like the NHS end up with staff shortages.

Employees NIC, student loan deductions, workplace pension deductions, etc. It's not just basic rate tax which is deducted!

Well the government did plan to increase national insurance in order to better fund social care. That was rolled back when COL increased so dramatically as the Torys are not a party of tax increases, it doesn't win votes.

The NHS has been woefully underfunded for years, but the service it's trying to provide now is dramatically different to when it was originally created.

This would include everyone; even those on benefits. So over the age of 18.

It might not fix everything, but that money could be ring fenced for say, A&E or maternity care.

Also an option for people to pay more than the £1/1.50 tax.

I just feel something has to give because the thought of losing the NHS is quite devastating.

Yes, but £700 is a hell of a lot more than lots of people who earn less or live mostly on benefits.

We can't continue increasing the tax burden on less than half of the population, in fact probably less than a quarter of the population who earn more than average wages.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is complete lack of communication within the NHS. I am now under 3 different trusts for the same thing (yes, that is THREE). The GP is supposed to coordinate my care except GPs simply file results and do not action them. Therefore, I now have 3 trusts doing the exact same tests (expensive and time-consuming and labour intensive tests) as the GP can not seem to simply forward results from one to the other. It would be like throwing good money after bad. Utterly pointless.

Private healthcare transfers anything complex/ expensive back to the nhs so your figures don’t really work. The policies are nowhere near comprehensive

Which will be taxed. NI was set up to be <quote>a tax on earnings and self-employed profits paid by employees, employers and the self-employed. They can help to build your entitlement to certain benefits depending whether you are employed or self-employed, such as the State Pension and Maternity Allowance <unquote>

If people have enough in pensions to be able to retire early and not rely on having a full state pension, why should they pay NI that won't be of any benefit to them? why don't you offer to pay more tax?

advisingfamilies.org/uk/information-portal/managing-money/can-i-pay-more-tax-voluntarily/

I am trying to act as my own medical secretary without having access to my files. It's stressful, exhausting, infuriating and utterly baffling. I've seen desk-chairs more efficient that some people within the NHS.

Well the poster didn't say anything about student loans (which the tax-loving left tend to argue against and believe should be covered instead by general, progressive taxation as they used to be). And pension deductions are just putting your own money in a different place (with generous tax treatment by the government) to spend when you're older. They're not something the pesky government is "taking" from you for public services. They're certainly not a tax, which is what the objection was about.

No they don’t, it’s about 5.5k. It’s basic economics and has been tried before. There is always a tipping point where raising taxes lowers the yield. The previous poster was quite right.

I don't pay income tax because I earn under the personal allowance. I'd in no way say I was "poor".

A lot of women who work part time find themselves earning under the threshold. Indeed, my house runs off about £35k combined gross a year for two adults and a child. We pay a mortgage out of that, and we do all right. I don't need to visit food banks or anything.

Sometimes, I wonder what folk spend their money on. 🤔

Yes if you have a chronic condition then private medicine is probably useless. It is excellent for;

Bespoke procedures such cataracts, hip replacement, straightforward caesarean, laser eye surgery, etc. most posters who are still in their 40s could get this kind of insurance very cheaply.

Private medicine is great. But you are paying for time. And if you have a chronic problem, then either you are not covered or you can pay. The cost is eye watering. Think a good house deposit for a few weeks treatment in a private hospital in London.