To be shocked that women are still experiencing this?

[Mugwumper]

Not really a AIBU, posting for traffic.

I’m in my 40s.
Last week, went to our work Xmas do and was talking to a colleague who is 21. She said our boss (late 20s) had told her he was going to bed her that night. She told him to do one. He then approached another of the young girls and invited her to his room and said he always gets what he wants.

Another (married) boss (40s) higher up the chain of command was also trying to kiss one of the girls (late 20s) and hold her hand and grind up her on the dance floor.

Then I heard a conversation between another group of men and women and one of the men was asking the women how old they were when the lost their virginity and how many people they’d slept with.

I’m so shocked that women are still experiencing such predatory behaviour these days (after me too for example).

Do you have any recent experience of similar behaviour?

Of course, men have never stopped being like this. They prey on teenagers and young women. It stops as you get older, but only for you personally. The predation itself continues.

I'm more shocked you thought things had improved. Only stops when you become older and confident so men can't control women as much.

I’m actually shocked at your OP, I’ve never experienced that on such a profound scale involving multiple people. I’ve definitely come across sex harassers at work but more of a lone wolf (who was sacked). In your position I would be looking for a new job

After speaking to my nephew’s girlfriend, my goddaughter and my niece who are in their 20s, it seems apparent this is happening in many companies as they’ve recently experienced unwanted perverted comments from their superiors.

I guess I naively thought times had changed but clearly not.

I naively thought times had changed. I experienced this behaviour over 20-25 years ago in several companies. Why do these men think it’s appropriate to act like this?

I voted YABU to be shocked by this. It’s not gone away. Yes, it’s less common than it was, but it’s not rare or uncommon (yet).
I agree your workplace is toxic and I’d be getting a new job.

I have heard a lot more disgust/ shock about this behaviour in the past year or so. It has obviously been going on for years, but I feel women's reactions to this predatory behaviour is catching up with how bad it is.

It wasn’t that times changed so much as you got older and aged out of sniper alley for sexual harassment. I’m not being mean, I’m of similar age to you, but we cannot deny our chances of such harassment are much lower than what we experienced twenty or thirty years ago.

I also think that men + alcohol= laddish behaviour. Appropriate behaviour goes out the window for too many men. It’s not an excuse for this behaviour at all, just an observation.

I thought things were getting better (maybe they are a bit?) but now I think that I might just be seeing less of it as I’m not in that younger age category now. I guess certain workplaces are better than others as well. It’s horrible.

It still goes on but I think companies are becoming less tolerant of that kind of behaviour if it is reported.

Before lockdown one of my lecherous bosses was all over the young girls when we had Conferences.

However I noticed since covid he leaves soon after the meal ends. My company sacked a man for their behaviour at the last Xmas party. So I think older management now realise they can't get away with it!

It did annoy me that lecherous manager was the person who fired the man from the Xmas party. Hypocritical wanker!

If I saw it now, I would report to HR. Fuck 'em!

I've never worked with anyone like that.

My DD, 27, works in a hospital and overheard a doctor asking a male healthcare assistant if 'would you?' while pointing at her. Apparently reporting the pervy doctors (and other staff) gets you nowhere because they are so short staffed. They also don't do enough to stop sexual harrasment by patients or their visitors.

Mass generalisation of men (like your post) is as bad as the issue being discussed 🙂

I really do love my job and the company as a whole. It’s only when I went to the Christmas party that I heard all this. One manager at work was apparently sacked (before my time) for inappropriate conduct towards a female colleague.
Im fortunate that given my age and being married, I don’t get this unwanted attention any more.

The young ladies who’ve been experiencing unwanted behaviour do not want to report to HR (and have requested that the rest of us do not report to HR) as the HR manager was all over the married director at the Christmas party and they feel it will be ignored or swept under the carpet.

I doubt it happens at my current place (much) and it is a male dominated environment but I don't doubt it happens elsewhere. I've experienced it at previous workplaces.

The problem lies within predatory men.
We can condemn this behavior all we want (and should!) but it’s a fact that there are too many men who are just predators by nature and they won’t see anything wrong with their behavior or frankly just don’t give a shit and no me too campaign is going to change that. They will strike when they see an opportunity and thinking there’s a chance to get away with it. Or the predator comes out after a certain amount of alcohol. This might sound very pessimistic but imo it’s the truth and sadly women should always be on their guard. The only thing that might help to stop this behavior is apart from education, stricter punishments and standards for what is unacceptable behavior so they don’t deem it worth the risk.

Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me

Plus ca change, plus la meme chose

I think, we thought we had achieved great strides over the years for violence and harrasment against women.
In some ways we have.
In many other ways, nothing changes.

BTW , don't be fooled by the "it stops when you get older".
I thought the same. I'm over 40 and thought thank fuck that's all over.
Until I was sexually harassed via messages.
When the police arrested him, his excuse was he was "joking" and he was drunk.

The police explained that age has nothing to do with it. All ages of women report sexual harrassement. When it comes to sexual harrasement, its to do with power. These men get off on the "power" of making women, any age of women , uncomfortable.

Yes because a generalisation is every bit as bad as sexual harassment in the work place where an older male in a position of authority abuses that power to coerce you into politeness where you feel the need to reject the advance without bruising their ego or compliance by making you fear your future job prospects are dependent on it.

Here's another generalisation; anyone who feels the need to defend ALL men when ONLY predatory men are being discussed is part of the problem.

Agree @minou123

Everywhere I’ve ever worked, the male senior managers have had affairs with female subordinates.

There have always been a number of women happy to to advance their careers that way. I’m less sure how many told the boss to do one because you don’t hear about that.

You, or others, should still report. Even if your colleagues are right in their assessment of HR, it's important to get this on record. Creep like this won't stop at a single Christmas party.

Is this a larger company you're part of? Any chance of complaining to a headquarters as well?

Agree @FOJN

No and I’m old and senior enough that I would call this out loudly if I saw it at our Xmas party. I’d then pursue it with HR on Monday on behalf of the victim. I don’t tolerate this shit in my department. The team know they can talk to me and that bullying, discourtesy, harassment, un-professionalism etc.. will not be tolerated. We have clients and sometimes I have to go to meetings and tell them to wind their necks in too.
There should be zero place for this in the modern workplace and no one should have to put up with being sleeved over.. yuck!

I worked in an entirely male dominated area from age 18 (in 1988) until 41. I'm not sure it ever happened in the extreme way you've described. No doubt stuff happened at Christmas parties, some men were far too handsy and "banter" was anything but. Lots of bosses were at it with their secretaries, but I never encountered anyone being told they were going to be "bedded", there was still some pretence at "courtship" even when entirely inappropriate.

In so many ways, things seem to have got worse not better for women.

It’s not that it stops, it’s that it reduces past 40.
Age does affect the likelihood and frequency of sexual harassment.
So the impression we have of things “getting better for women” is skewed by this tapering off as it were.