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Original poster

A&E time wasters.

248 replies

ConfusedMumma99 · 20/12/2022 19:47

I don’t know if I’m just thinking like this because I’ve not been in a situation. But are people genuinely being ridiculous for the reasons of going to A&E

a friend took her son (20 months) to a&e because he got a temperature of 38.8. By the time the nurse took it at a&e it was normal and she said it was because she’d given him Calpol??????? She then said he was running round the waiting room eating snacks.

am i a cow???? Or why would use a&e for this? I appreciate lots in the news about strep A. But surely you would wait and see if temp came down with Calpol/nurofen? That’s what I’d do with my child.

however I am a first time mum so im worried I should take illness more seriously? Do you really need a hospital visit just for a temperature?

our local A&E had wait times of 14 hours the other day??? Is this a combo of lack of
staff or people going unnecessarily.

I know GP’s are notoriously bad for appointments?

how are people seen in A&E? By time spent or by severity?? It seems scary that if you actually needed a&e that you might not get seen.

OP posts:
DoraSpenlow · 20/12/2022 20:36

My surgery posted this message on Facebook yesterday.

Due to unprecedented pressures at the surgery, over the next few weeks the practice will be closing askmyGP and the surgery will only be able to action urgent requests.
If you have a minor ailment, the surgery asks that you contact your local pharmacy or NHS 111 in the first instance to discuss these. If a minor ailment becomes urgent please contact the surgery or in the case of an emergency call 999.

Few weeks!! No wonder people end up at A&E.

katienana · 20/12/2022 20:38

Last year I was in with my mum who'd cut her head open and needed staples. We were there from 9pm till 4am. Around 1am a man came in with a woman, walking talking normally not visibly in pain. I was sitting near the admissions desk so I heard him say he'd started having a pain in his testicle in the last 2 hrs. He had not tried painkillers and had not had an accident. They told him it was a 6 hour wait and he's like ok and sits down. For me people presenting like that need to be sent home.
Kids are different they don't always seem like they are in pain and can go up and down v quickly. It recently took 5 hours to get my son into a splint for a minor fracture, this was on a Tuesday afternoon so not a peak time at all. We need more investment in all the front line services if we want to have better outcomes

cptartapp · 20/12/2022 20:39

Overthebow · 20/12/2022 20:24

Also the GP service has got a lot worse. When I was a kid the doctors had an out of hours number and an on call GP would come out and do home visits at night. Although I was unwell a lot as a young kid I never had to go to A&E for something like a temperature because of this. Doesn’t happen anymore, our doctors surgery closes at 5pm and then that’s it, on your own.

GP caseloads have doubled with far more complex patients than years ago. They're statistically seeing more patients than ever before. Our clinics are rammed for weeks ahead.

cansu · 20/12/2022 20:39

Lack of GP services and media panic.

Many people on here will tell any parent to go straight to A and E if there is a temperature.

No Gps are available to check kids and reassure.

Parents will of course go to A and E.

Unforgettablefire · 20/12/2022 20:40

Orangebadger · 20/12/2022 20:12

I work in A&E, 17 years so pretty qualified to give you an accurate answer! Firstly there is no one reason.
There is a huge amount of reliance on the medical profession and many many people lack the simple ability to care for themselves, just basic stuff. We have adults coming in as they vomited once! Or for a cold, my favourite was a lady who had an eye lash in her eye... the lash came out but she was panicked because she could not find it, she came to see where her eye lash went. We have people attend who want their toe nails clipped, verrucas removed. I could go on but you get the picture! So self help, more of that in spades would be great!

Secondly, 111! Nightmare, sends many many red flags that are not really red flags to A&E. so we have a lot of very bemused patients wondering why they have to be here but 111 insisted, or even called them an ambulance.

Thirdly, primary health care. Now GPS are not bad at appointments, they are hugely over worked and stretched to an impossible amount. As are all over primary care services, nursing, mental health, sexual health, physios etc. so people come to us as a last resort, and I get it. The system is broken and we are the only place you can come, open door, no appointment needed. Just wait!

As for the order we see patients in, well yes life threatening problems will always be prioritised. But all else, is first come first served, that all changed back in 2004 when the 4 hr target was bought in. So we had no choice or we were fined for if we had more than 5% of patients wait longer that 4 hours to be seen, treated, discharged or referred and admitted.

Who is it that decides how urgent your case is when you arrive? Is it the receptionist or is every case put straight through to a doctor?

Dingalingo · 20/12/2022 20:41

BeyondMyWits · 20/12/2022 20:06

But doctors are also sending people to a and e. I had a bit of a heart issue... have had a heart attack in the past and this was not like that. What I needed was a referral to cardiology to review my medication and tweak it a bit. But doc sent me to a and e with the umbrella of "chest pain". So frustrating. It was...as I already thought... a complete waste of time. (9 hours, 2 blood tests, x Ray, ecg) and sent back to gp to refer me onwards - WHICH IS WHAT I WENT THERE FOR in the first place.

Okay but the doctors in a&e were clearly also worried about something acute to do all of those tests BEFORE saying yes you’re fine go and get a routine referral. I’m sure you’d have a bigger complaint if the GP had said oh yes routine and you’d had something acute going on (the GP cannot access bloods/x rays at their fingertips to tell you that on the day, so has to make best judgement based on the information they have available to them in the 10 minutes they are allocated with you )

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 20/12/2022 20:42

DoraSpenlow · 20/12/2022 20:36

My surgery posted this message on Facebook yesterday.

Due to unprecedented pressures at the surgery, over the next few weeks the practice will be closing askmyGP and the surgery will only be able to action urgent requests.
If you have a minor ailment, the surgery asks that you contact your local pharmacy or NHS 111 in the first instance to discuss these. If a minor ailment becomes urgent please contact the surgery or in the case of an emergency call 999.

Few weeks!! No wonder people end up at A&E.

A&E attendances have been static since 2019. GP appointments have increased 20% over the same period, despite a fall in the number of GPs.

There are not enough GPs to go round, so practices are having to stretch resources to breaking point, but GPs are not responsible for the problems in A&E - as I say, there has been no over all increase in attendances. The problems in A&E are caused by being unable to admit people to hospital wards, because the wards are full of people with delayed discharges.

A&E time wasters.
Thisismynamenow · 20/12/2022 20:43

Whowhatwherewhenwhynow · 20/12/2022 19:51

my son was poorly last week, could not get through to 111, online 111 said call 111 and GP couldn’t offer anything. He got worse and there was a point that I thought I’d need to decide between doing nothing or A and E.

I don’t think people are ridiculous. I think the system is absolutely falling apart so people go to A and E as other routes are t available.

its scary

This. I was on the phone to 111 for 4.5 hours on Sunday. They put the phone down on me.

I then called back and waited 1.5 hours and they put the phone down on me again.

Urgent care walk in had a 2 hour wait to get inside the building (it was freezing and raining), then a 5 hour wait once inside.

A&E would of been my only option if he got worse.

Badger1970 · 20/12/2022 20:44

Education. People need to be educated in what is an emergency, what is urgent and what is routine. And what is the right point of access for each one.

Instead, they expect instant access to healthcare and rock up to A & E as they want it dealt with there and then.

Helloautumn22 · 20/12/2022 20:44

I do think there is a degree of many parents not having a good understanding of the traffic light system for ill children and who panic as soon as their child has a temperature, even when well in themselves. Beyond that though the NHS is on its knees and when you can’t get a GP appointment or it’s out of hours and A and E is the only available option it’s a nightmare when the alternative is to do nothing.

fastandthecurious1 · 20/12/2022 20:45

I have to say and I'm not clinical but a surgery receptionist... people refuse to self care initially anymore. Everyone wants abx the first day of feeling sick so they don't get worse etc when GPS refuse or cannot offer this people go further afield for help regardless of need.

Health anxiety has gone through the roof and GPS surgeries simply cannot cope, my surgery has 4,000 calls today for out 4 sites for a team of 8 call handlers a taking on average 80-120 a days.

I can say at least 40 -50 of my calls today were unnecessary. Coughs/ sneezes / funny noses for 1-2 days for over 2 years olds to adults no underlying conditions. Conjunctivitis for a day or so, ear pain / throat pain the same
Thrush in adults / vomiting once / minor skins issues - such a waste of our time when we have people on hold that may need genuine help with something more pressing.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 20/12/2022 20:46

The number of hospital doctors has risen sharply over the last few years, whereas the number of GPs has fallen. Despite this, GPs are the only part of the NHS to be dealing with more patients since Covid.

I work in hospital and general practice, Both are hellish at the moment. The problems in hospital are not caused by GPs so please do not fall for the cynical Government attempts to scapegoat them.

A&E time wasters.
A&E time wasters.
Dingalingo · 20/12/2022 20:49

I have also had patients as a GP using up appointments for silly things meaning other people who have greater need cannot access the appointments. E.g. “I had a sore throat on Monday but couldn’t get an urgent appointment with you that day (pointed stare) so thought I’d keep my appointment on Friday to ask you what it might have been. Oh no it’s gone now I took some paracetamol…” seriously. In an otherwise well and as far as I could tell not intellectually affected individual. Why do people do this? Have also worked in a&e for years and get people coming in with ear wax, headache that started 2 hours ago (no painkillers taken) etc. I once had a patient come in because they had splashed some yogurt in their eye and then read the ingredients and it said “lactic acid” and they were worried there was now acid in their eye. No problem with their vision. The yogurt was long wiped away. The system is totally broken and the patients are not to blame, however the lack of common sense does blow my mind sometimes!

PonkyPonky · 20/12/2022 20:49

I had to visit A&E this year and I can tell you there were a lot of time wasters there. I myself shouldn’t have been there. I had been to the GP and she said I urgently needed intravenous antibiotics for cellulitis but she called and called the department of the hospital that could have done this and they didn’t answer the phone so she had no choice but to send me to A&E. So it’s not just the public swamping A&E but also other hospital departments. But whilst I was there I witnessed someone checking in saying ‘she came yesterday but it was busy so came back today’ she’d had a bump to the head and had no other symptoms.
The saddest part was that I saw people who really did need to be there and to be seen urgently but weren’t and they were just collapsing or fitting or vomiting in the waiting room. There were ambulances just sitting outside with no where to take the patients to. But what I don’t understand is why is there such a huge length of time between people being called to be seen. The triage nurse would see someone then send them back out and an hour would go by before she called the next person. The system as a whole needs fixing. A child with a high temp should be treated at home and when that doesn’t work they should have access to a GP. A person like me who needed access to a different hospital department should have been able to go there. If you took all the people out of A&E that don’t need to be there then we wouldn’t have ambulances waiting outside and wait times of 10+ hours

Notanotherusername4321 · 20/12/2022 20:49

Unforgettablefire · 20/12/2022 20:40

Who is it that decides how urgent your case is when you arrive? Is it the receptionist or is every case put straight through to a doctor?

Show quote history

No case is sent straight through to a dr, as they tend to be be busy treating patients.

when I worked on a&e busy times we had a dedicated triage nurse in reception. Check in, see nurse for quick triage, take a seat.

less busy times when they’d be seen fairly quickly there was less need to have a nurse off the floor to triage. However receptionists weren’t stupid and anything stand out- deformed limbs, head injury, chest wounds etc would call a nurse down for a quick look just to make sure they were ok waiting.

it’s been shown the most effective way to reduce waiting times is to have an a&e consultant on the door triaging. Because they actually have the authority to send straight home, to a pharmacist for a lemsip, to a gp/eye hospital etc. anyone in a lesser position has to follow procedure, book in, document etc.

MassiveSalad22 · 20/12/2022 20:50

Helloautumn22 · 20/12/2022 20:44

I do think there is a degree of many parents not having a good understanding of the traffic light system for ill children and who panic as soon as their child has a temperature, even when well in themselves. Beyond that though the NHS is on its knees and when you can’t get a GP appointment or it’s out of hours and A and E is the only available option it’s a nightmare when the alternative is to do nothing.

Should be taught in antenatal classes (I know they’re not compulsory but would be a start)

Iam4eels · 20/12/2022 20:52

EmmaAgain22 · 20/12/2022 20:31

I've asked before on here and never get an answer

what part of the country still has out of hours GP? We hadn't had one for c15 years in my bit of London, nor mum's bit of Essex.

Show quote history

I'm in Northumberland and we have out of hours GPs.

They're located in various places. One of our nearest ones is at the hospital as described, one is in a hired space in an office building, a few are in GP surgeries and are "hubs" that cover several practices during closed hours. My GP is a multi-practice group and runs a walk-in out of hours service on evenings and weekends on a rolling rota between it's three largest surgeries. They have an out of hours number that you call to get an appointment or 111 can book it. You don't see your regular GP, you see an on-call/locum GP.

I've even had a couple of out of hours home GP visits from the on-call GP when I was unwell post-surgery and couldn't easily travel to hospital.

StarDolphins · 20/12/2022 20:52

Orangebadger · 20/12/2022 20:12

I work in A&E, 17 years so pretty qualified to give you an accurate answer! Firstly there is no one reason.
There is a huge amount of reliance on the medical profession and many many people lack the simple ability to care for themselves, just basic stuff. We have adults coming in as they vomited once! Or for a cold, my favourite was a lady who had an eye lash in her eye... the lash came out but she was panicked because she could not find it, she came to see where her eye lash went. We have people attend who want their toe nails clipped, verrucas removed. I could go on but you get the picture! So self help, more of that in spades would be great!

Secondly, 111! Nightmare, sends many many red flags that are not really red flags to A&E. so we have a lot of very bemused patients wondering why they have to be here but 111 insisted, or even called them an ambulance.

Thirdly, primary health care. Now GPS are not bad at appointments, they are hugely over worked and stretched to an impossible amount. As are all over primary care services, nursing, mental health, sexual health, physios etc. so people come to us as a last resort, and I get it. The system is broken and we are the only place you can come, open door, no appointment needed. Just wait!

As for the order we see patients in, well yes life threatening problems will always be prioritised. But all else, is first come first served, that all changed back in 2004 when the 4 hr target was bought in. So we had no choice or we were fined for if we had more than 5% of patients wait longer that 4 hours to be seen, treated, discharged or referred and admitted.

This is so true & so sad. My friend is leaving A&E after many years because of this reason, people with brushes stuck up their backside, ingrowing toes nails, sick once etc . Also the attitude of a lot of people is just vile.

there are young lads turning up saying they have bad chest pain & are sweating after splitting with their GF/taking drugs etc so they get pushed to the front & poor 90 year old that have fallen & broken hips get pushed to the back.

MarshaBradyo · 20/12/2022 20:53

Badger1970 · 20/12/2022 20:44

Education. People need to be educated in what is an emergency, what is urgent and what is routine. And what is the right point of access for each one.

Instead, they expect instant access to healthcare and rock up to A & E as they want it dealt with there and then.

Agree

AlwaysLatte · 20/12/2022 20:56

Things can change quickly. My 14 year old som had a temperature of 41.6 last week and was feeling dizzy. I wanted him to be seen obviously, but quickly googled 111 after giving him paracetamol to get advice. It was to call 999 so I just took him myself. While we were waiting his temperature came down and he was eyeing up the vending machine, which was a good sign, so I took him home and he was fine the next day. I'd rather be safe than sorry though, and had his temperature gone any higher or he'd fainted we would have been in the right place.

EmmaAgain22 · 20/12/2022 20:56

MassiveSalad22 · 20/12/2022 20:35

Surrey, Somerset, Cheshire to name a few. At hospitals usually, not your regular GP.

Show quote history

Thanks, good to know of Surrey as well as I've a relative there

Between me and olds, we've needed it, used it when it existed, and now it's just "call 111". The local hospitals don't have anything attached either. I recently spoke with a training doctor who said he had done this work on rotation in Norfolk I think, but he wasn't aware of any similar in my area.

MissCrowley · 20/12/2022 20:58

I know someone who cut their finger and went to A&E. Had to wait 8 hours to be seen and then whinged about it on Facebook- they needed a couple of steri strips. No even deep enough for an actual stitch.

This is why it's going to shit, because people can't do basic fucking first aid at home.

Chihuahuasrule · 20/12/2022 20:58

After the palaver I have had trying to get my daughter reviewed over the past 24 hours, I have far more sympathy for those who rock up at A&E with minor illnesses than ever before.

No call back from 111 overnight.
No GP appointments this am.
Arranged a private online GP appointment- they didn't call - IT issues apparently
Contacted NHS GP again- got a teleconsult. Waited few hours for this. Spent good 5 mins on phone with GP going through symptoms- oh she needs a face to face review and we haven't got any appointments so you're going to have to take her to urgent care.

I should have just taken her to urgent care in the first place.

I'm a HCP myself and it feels like such a kick in the teeth to not be able to access care for my family.

RidingMyBike · 20/12/2022 20:59

Surrey still had out of hours GPs at the time we moved last year. They also did F2F appointments at the same site. Operating as a 'hub', you'd ring up, get given a phone call appt with GP who would then send you on to the hub and there be seen by an appropriately qualified person. So one time a nurse, another a paramedic. Both times checked me over, ascertained chest infection and got me antibiotics (prescription checked by doctor overseeing the hub).

It was quick and efficient and must have kept loads out of A&E. We used it a couple of times to get a rash on DD checked too.

I also remember as a student walk-in centres where it was relatively straightforward to see a nurse 7 days a week and get something checked - often just reassurance but they were brilliant when I took a housemate with a UTI there.

LakieLady · 20/12/2022 21:00

MassiveSalad22 · 20/12/2022 20:35

Surrey, Somerset, Cheshire to name a few. At hospitals usually, not your regular GP.

Show quote history

Brighton has one, as do some of the community hospitals in East Sussex.

They aren't open 24 hours though, I think the hours are 8am-9pm.