Paying to volunteer?

[SomeMonstersEatTelly]

Posting for traffic - any helpful steers most appreciated!

My BIL is 40 and has learning disabilities. For the past couple of years he has been working at a cafe run by a charity. The charity has been set up primarily to raise funds for another purpose.

He is classed as a “student” and does not get paid. All the public materials on the charity’s website state that students work towards an NVQ1 in hospitality, though the family hasn’t seen any evidence of this or any sort of plan to help him progress to paid employment as a result of his experience. There are employed workers at the cafe who do not have a disability apparently to help train the students. The charity seems to receive National Lottery Funding etc to train the students.

DH and I have just discovered that BIL has to pay for each shift he works at the cafe which amounts to £10 per hour. This sounds distinctly dodgy to us, but before we run off in a frenzy to the Charity Commission or anyone else, has anyone heard of this model at all or have an idea as to where to refer our concerns to?

This sounds beyond dodgy.

But maybe ask the charity first?

How is he affording to pay £10ph?
This sounds very dodgy.

No, that sounds very dodgy. You definitely should investigate further.

Report to both HMRC and the Charity Commission.

Couple of years! Wouldn’t they have to be registered with an exam board of some type?? Def report. Have you had a look on companies house at their accounts?

That definitely sounds dodgy!

Sounds v dodgy. I've worked for a charity and never heard of this.

I'm definitely no expert in this field, but it does sound dodgy

How many hours does he work and how on earth is he paying £10 an hour?! This sounds massively dodgy-how did you find out? How is he paying them?

There are some schemes which charge a lot to support people with support needs to volunteer. DS wants to volunteer as a gardener, it would cost him / us £70 a day.

This is the type of model used by "care farms" and "supported employment" where the adult with care needs pays for the placement. The cost apparently covers the cost of staff to support the adult to access the activity/work. Usually the cost is met via the adult's Personal Budget ie the weekly amount their social worker assesses that they need to meet their Care Act eligible needs (could be paid directly by local authority or as a Direct Payment to the adult or their family carer to spend on care.) If BIL enjoys it and benefits but is meeting the cost from his own income (e.g. UC or PIP) it is worth discussing with him/his parents asking the LA for an assessment.
Some of these schemes are great, others are frankly exploitative.
Hope all works out well.

That sounds like exploitation. Never mind him paying to train/work, is there any reason he isn't on nmw? Not sure how his benefits would be impacted by that but he should be being paid.

I would ask to see his contract first off. Then evidence of registration with an education provider/apprenticeship scheme. And enquire why he is not being paid. If you don't get satisfactory answers then CC or solicitor.

Honestly, this sounds horrendous. Is there a charity (hopefully not the one running this cafe!) that supports people specifically with his type of LD? If so I would be inclined to give them a call-they may have encountered this type of situation before and be prepared to help and potentially fund legal advice.

If he is truly working-eg waiting tables, washing dishes, taking payments, preparing food etc I can't see any reason he's not being paid. A couple of week's work experience-yes. Two year's work, alongside paid employees and doing substantially similar work that would have to be done by a paid employee if not him, no way.

It really depends on the level of support he needs. If it's the case a one to one is needed then they have to employ someone to assist him.

But if he's doing basic tasks with only a little extra help then this seems unreasonable.

Hard to judge without knowing that.

Who told him he has to pay? Can you ask to see any paperwork?

Thank you all, there’s some really good food for thought here and it is quite comforting to know that our gut reaction isn’t an overreaction.

MIL has been funding this exercise and was complaining about the ongoing cost - I will encourage DH to ask her whether she has received any sort of paperwork or confirmation of what BIL is receiving for the payment. He is now on one shift per week - 4 hours - but until recently was on 2 x 4 hour shifts. He doesn’t need one to one support and as far as we are aware, isn’t receiving anything like the sort. I don’t know what the ratio of paid employee to student is. It has gone on for so long without seemingly any sort of pathway into paid work that our suspicions were raised and MIL let slip she had been paying all along.

I am not sure what companies need to do to be able to provide NVQs?

I’ve had a look at Companies House and the accounts seem to be in the black. There’s not a huge amount of detail but one source of income is the cafe’s “fees” which I am assuming is what BIL and others pay. There is plenty of external funding including National Lottery money and it all adds up to an awful lot.

I have put in a request to Mencap for advice from their information and rights team and hope they might be able to point me in the right direction to look into this further. DH is kept at arm’s length by his parents and so it can be quite hard getting to the bottom of what is going on with BIL (hence not knowing that his “volunteer work” was actually costing MIL money) but we are determined not to let this one pass as it potentially affects other people with disabilities and their support networks.

Thanks again - all input has been very helpful and appreciated.

Thanks so much, that is incredibly useful.