To not think this is right?

UndertheCedartree · 2022-12-16T20:16:08+00:00

This week I was supporting a friend who had to attend court. He has a serious mental illness and unfortunately wasn't given the help he needed when he became very unwell (but that's another story...) While psychotic he punched a support worker at his accomodation (friend was asking for something but the support worker couldn't understand English well enough to respond and friend interpreted it differently as unwell.) The poor man was hurt and the police were called. For whatever reason despite my explaining how unwell he was the police took him to the police station which being psychotic my friend couldn't understand and he attempted to hit out at one of the police officers but was unable to because his hands were in hand cuffs. He was charged with 2 counts of assualt My friend pleaded guilty

Facecream · 16/12/2022 20:21

Hi OP. What is it that you think is wrong? He did the smart thing by pleading guilty.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 20:22

He was charged with assaulting the support worker and also the police officer. He pleaded guilty and was given a suspended sentence as the magistrate took the view the incidences happened due to my friend not being given the treatment he needed for his mental health.

Also the police officer was given compensation. But not the support worker. I found this really unfair. The support worker is on minimum wage, no training and was the one that was hurt. The police officer was not hurt atall, chose to take someone who was psychotic to a police station not a hospital and gets a wage to reflect the fact it is a dangerous job. I'm not saying it is right that someone should try to hit them, but in this case I really don't understand how they were seen as more deserving to get compensation? Can anyone shed any light on this?

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Facecream · 16/12/2022 20:24

Do you mean compensation for the care worker? I’ve no idea what could be done for him. Was it a matter of how both parties presented the case - one seeking damages and the other not?

TheLightSideOfTheMoon · 16/12/2022 20:25

I think the right thing happened.

I’ve been beaten up by people with differing levels of capacity and while it’s not always their fault I do have a right to report assaults to the police. It’s not fair that staff get assaulted and it’s considered ‘part of the job’.

Also, this may help your friend get more care, more funding and more help with his MH.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 20:27

Facecream · 16/12/2022 20:24

Do you mean compensation for the care worker? I’ve no idea what could be done for him. Was it a matter of how both parties presented the case - one seeking damages and the other not?

Yes, I think the support worker was more deserving of compensation as he was actually hit, he was hurt and he is on minimum wage. The compensation while not making up for what happened to him, I'm sure would have been a welcome injection of cash.

Do police officers get compensation everytime someone tries to hit them? If so it must

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 20:28

It keeps playing up and posting before I've finished typing!

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TodayIsFridayHooray · 16/12/2022 20:30

I work in mental health with people involved in crime. It's been my job and passion for over 20 years. V v sadly it is people like your friend who are the ones charged. It is always the little guy, the vulnerable person, the learning disability person, the person the police have wound up, that end up being charged. The big wigs get away with everything. I have lost count of how many people I've seen and thought "whhhaaaaat? Whose idea was this to arrest you AND drag it through the courts and hand a sentence down??"

I'm so disillusioned I give up now and just go with the flow and focus on supporting people through the whole crazy process. It's a bigger fight than I have in me to take on, and noone cares

In the last 10 years, the NHS has gone massively downhill and so has the criminal justice system. It's all wrong and all the wrong people get help and all the wrong people get punished. I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry 💐💐

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2022 20:30

Yanbu. The support worker should have been compensated. The police seem to have a habit of making quite possibly every scenario exponentially worse whenever they get involved. I hope your friend is now receiving the care he needs. I'm not an expert on it but may have to do with how the police presented their case. I can't imagine they get a pay out everytime they're threatened with violence though.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 20:30

It must be a steady stream of compensation if they get it every time someone tries to hit them?

I've never been in a court before so don't know much about how it works. But it was 'the crown' that set out the case involving both parties.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 20:36

TodayIsFridayHooray · 16/12/2022 20:30

I work in mental health with people involved in crime. It's been my job and passion for over 20 years. V v sadly it is people like your friend who are the ones charged. It is always the little guy, the vulnerable person, the learning disability person, the person the police have wound up, that end up being charged. The big wigs get away with everything. I have lost count of how many people I've seen and thought "whhhaaaaat? Whose idea was this to arrest you AND drag it through the courts and hand a sentence down??"

I'm so disillusioned I give up now and just go with the flow and focus on supporting people through the whole crazy process. It's a bigger fight than I have in me to take on, and noone cares

In the last 10 years, the NHS has gone massively downhill and so has the criminal justice system. It's all wrong and all the wrong people get help and all the wrong people get punished. I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry 💐💐

This has hung over my friend for 9 months. A short while later he was sectioned and was unable to attend court due to being sectioned. The case was adjourned twice. Noone could understand why it wasn't thrown out. The magistrate was very good though and understood completely that this was caused by untreated mental health. But it's so sad my poor friend now has a criminal record when he is so mild mannered and has a heart of gold.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 20:38

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2022 20:30

Yanbu. The support worker should have been compensated. The police seem to have a habit of making quite possibly every scenario exponentially worse whenever they get involved. I hope your friend is now receiving the care he needs. I'm not an expert on it but may have to do with how the police presented their case. I can't imagine they get a pay out everytime they're threatened with violence though.

Yes, thank you he was sectioned not long after and has now been discharged and has settled into new accommodation and is doing very well.

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RelapsedChocoholic · 16/12/2022 21:23

It’s great your friend is doing better

According to the victim support website you have to explicitly tell the police if you want to claim compensation, and provide info on your ‘losses’.

I’d always thought it was just something the judge decided to award as part of the sentence, without it having to be requested, but apparently not- I would’ve expected the support worker to be compensated, but perhaps they also didn’t know this?

www.victimsupport.org.uk/help-and-support/what-you-can-do/compensation/

Onnabugeisha · 16/12/2022 21:30

I don’t understand why your friend was convicted, it sounds to me that he was coerced into pleading guilty. If he was suffering a psychotic episode, then shouldn’t he have pled not guilty with a diminished responsibility defence? After all, the number of people who murder other people and get found not guilty due to diminished responsibility are also often suffering psychotic episodes are they not? So why is it that if you kill some or while psychotic you get sent to a psychiatric hospital, but if you punch someone you get a suspended sentence and no medical care for your psychosis?

smileandsing · 16/12/2022 21:39

Unwell as your friend is I think it was the right outcome, compensation aside. He did assault the support worker and attempted to assault an officer. His mental health may have caused his actions, but it doesn't excuse them which is why the case wasn't thrown out.

The real issue here is the extremely poor mental health support provision in this country. Very often the Police end up dealing with the results of the actions of those who are mentally unwell who would never have behaved in such a way if they had received the help they really needed. The Government/NHS need to sort that out for the sake of people like your friend and those he unfortunately assaulted

Mangogogogo · 16/12/2022 21:51

Someone must have deemed him to have capacity at the time of the incident. I cannot say whether that decision was right or wrong.

how do you know the policeman got compensation? This would not usually be public knowledge.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 22:39

RelapsedChocoholic · 16/12/2022 21:23

It’s great your friend is doing better

According to the victim support website you have to explicitly tell the police if you want to claim compensation, and provide info on your ‘losses’.

I’d always thought it was just something the judge decided to award as part of the sentence, without it having to be requested, but apparently not- I would’ve expected the support worker to be compensated, but perhaps they also didn’t know this?

www.victimsupport.org.uk/help-and-support/what-you-can-do/compensation/

This wasn't explained to the support worker. It's a shame the police officer claimed compensation for themselves (what losses did he suffer for a mentally unwell person attempting to hit him but unable to?) but didn't think to let the support worker know about it.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 22:42

TheLightSideOfTheMoon · 16/12/2022 20:25

I think the right thing happened.

I’ve been beaten up by people with differing levels of capacity and while it’s not always their fault I do have a right to report assaults to the police. It’s not fair that staff get assaulted and it’s considered ‘part of the job’.

Also, this may help your friend get more care, more funding and more help with his MH.

The right thing happened? The staff member who was hurt not getting compensation was the right thing? Sorry I'm a bit confused by what you've written?

And no, it hasn't helped him atall. It's just made his mental health worse through the anxiety the whole thing has caused.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 22:44

Onnabugeisha · 16/12/2022 21:30

I don’t understand why your friend was convicted, it sounds to me that he was coerced into pleading guilty. If he was suffering a psychotic episode, then shouldn’t he have pled not guilty with a diminished responsibility defence? After all, the number of people who murder other people and get found not guilty due to diminished responsibility are also often suffering psychotic episodes are they not? So why is it that if you kill some or while psychotic you get sent to a psychiatric hospital, but if you punch someone you get a suspended sentence and no medical care for your psychosis?

He was advised to plead guilty by his solicitor. I don't have the experience to know if that was right or not.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 22:50

smileandsing · 16/12/2022 21:39

Unwell as your friend is I think it was the right outcome, compensation aside. He did assault the support worker and attempted to assault an officer. His mental health may have caused his actions, but it doesn't excuse them which is why the case wasn't thrown out.

The real issue here is the extremely poor mental health support provision in this country. Very often the Police end up dealing with the results of the actions of those who are mentally unwell who would never have behaved in such a way if they had received the help they really needed. The Government/NHS need to sort that out for the sake of people like your friend and those he unfortunately assaulted

We were told that if it wasn't that a police officer was involved it wouldn't have even got as far as court. Even then I was told it was probably going to be thrown out. The reasoning as to why it wasn't I don't understand. The police were criticised for the way it was dealt with. Apparently it should have been dealt with straight away not dragged out for 9 months. But that aside my question was about the compensation. But it sounds like it just came down to the police knowing the system.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 22:52

smileandsing · 16/12/2022 21:39

Unwell as your friend is I think it was the right outcome, compensation aside. He did assault the support worker and attempted to assault an officer. His mental health may have caused his actions, but it doesn't excuse them which is why the case wasn't thrown out.

The real issue here is the extremely poor mental health support provision in this country. Very often the Police end up dealing with the results of the actions of those who are mentally unwell who would never have behaved in such a way if they had received the help they really needed. The Government/NHS need to sort that out for the sake of people like your friend and those he unfortunately assaulted

The police should have taken him to the hospital to the 136 suite not the police station.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 16/12/2022 22:55

Mangogogogo · 16/12/2022 21:51

Someone must have deemed him to have capacity at the time of the incident. I cannot say whether that decision was right or wrong.

how do you know the policeman got compensation? This would not usually be public knowledge.

He was psychotic and definitely lacked capacity. He has a serious mental illness and was clearly delusional. The police should have taken him to hospital.

No idea what is usual. But the magistrate told my friend he would have to pay a sum of money which would go to the police officer as compensation.

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Testina · 16/12/2022 23:12

You seem to be talking like you think there’s a fixed amount of compensation available for this, and the policeman took it all - depriving the support worker. The policeman didn’t get anything more than they were entitled to, and their claim didn’t stop the support worker from making their own claim. Which is easily google-able by an English speaking friend of the support worker.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/12/2022 09:14

Testina · 16/12/2022 23:12

You seem to be talking like you think there’s a fixed amount of compensation available for this, and the policeman took it all - depriving the support worker. The policeman didn’t get anything more than they were entitled to, and their claim didn’t stop the support worker from making their own claim. Which is easily google-able by an English speaking friend of the support worker.

I had no idea that people had to claim compensation. I mean it's only google-able if you know there is anything to Google. I had no idea having been born and bred in the UK so there's no way the poor support worker would have known. I'm not suggesting the police officer took from the support worker, I just found it wrong that the support worker got nothing as the person hurt, while the police officer did get compensation, although not hurt. It didn't make sense to me.

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