To think that if the NHS sends you an appointment for a significant surgical procedure, you turn up>

[XingMing]

DH has waited two years for a (complicated) day surgery on his heart. He turned up for it at 7 am this morning and of the six scheduled booked patients, two arrived. There was a surgical team of ten arranged, who stood around waiting. If this is the normal, and the doctors, surgeons and nurses seemed to think it was, then complaints about underfunding the nhs funding needs should be kicked backed to the public. It's reasonable to expect the treatment paid for via taxation, but it is unreasonable to be so cavalier about non attendance. This was a procedure that cost the NHS £20k or more in salary costs... and two-thirds of the list were no shows. Can you tell that I am incensed for the people on waiting lists and the taxpayers funding the waste? For the record, the roads were all clear.

My Dad couldn’t get to an eye appointment as the transport ambulance didn’t turn up to take him. They turned up at the hospital to bring him home though 🤔

If you were using email and SMS to book NHS appointments the skills would be a lot more likely to stay with you.

I've no doubt a very small minority of elderly people would struggle. But it'd be a lot fewer people than struggle at the moment with letters not arriving, going astray, being held up in strikes etc. At the end of the day, the NHS has to use the method which works the best for the most people, not remain stuck in the past on the basis that a few people can't cope with technology. At what point do you say enough is enough?

12 out of 600 is low. 1.2% DNA. It will be memory issues, addiction, mental illness.

There are a variety of reasons.

Some have mental health problems and if they're having a bad day they can't function at all.

Some have chaotic lives and never remember any appointments.

Some change their mind about the procedure/test, and don't care enough to tell the clinic.

Most of them just can't be bothered, something else comes up that day that seems more important, and they think they can just reschedule when it suits them.

In general the habitual DNAers are self centred, and can't or won't see beyond their own personal needs at that precise moment. They don't see the bigger picture.

I missed a significant surgery because the appointment was never sent to me. I had a phone call from the hospital to ask why I had not kept my appointment and I burst into tears because I was so anxious about having the procedure and could not believe I had missed it. Although I was on the list there was no record of them sending me an appointment.

Not sure what it is like where you are now but in our part of the UK there are whole villages that are cut off due to black ice. But if that is the case then surely you phone first thing.

I don't DNA on purpose and hospital appointments I absolutely make sure I attend. But I have mental health issues. The nature of being mentally unwell means life is difficult to navigate for me especially if I'm under stress and dealing with a lot of unknowns like medical appointments.

My post was to show there are reasons for DNAing and it's not on purpose that we do it. I don't wake up thinking "oh I'm going to miss this very important appointment I've waited a long time for" I will have spend a long time fixating on the fact this appointment is coming up and how to get there and contingencies for if I can't park and if there is traffic...

A scheduled surgery would’ve had a pre op assessment so there is no excuse of not getting letters.

@Florenz Loads of elderly people can not use technology when ill. Memory issues, poor fine motor control - Parkinsons, arthritis, strokes, etc, confusion and getting overwhelmed easily.
I suspect you have very little understanding of ageing and illness.

There is research and NHS guidance about how to reduce DNAs. If your DNAs are very high maybe have a read at what you can do?

Friend has had to do a lot of telephone consultations over the last couple of years. Patient's attitude is very flippant. She'll call and they're expecting her, but out shopping. Or their child (who the call is with) is just going into the shower and will be ten minutes. Her team is at about 20% capacity due to Brexit, Covid etc.

I am not surprised.

• Actually forgot
• Can't make it due to illness/circumstance and can't get in touch (really hard to get in touch with departments in my local hospital at times!)
• Are unaware they have an appointment as they have had no letter
• Are unaware because their appointment has been changed without informing them
• Are orbiting the bloody hospital looking for parking from an hour before the appointment time til so late theres no point.
• Appointment was cancelled by hospital staff but not recorded as such
• Appointment was actually cancelled/rearranged by patient but not recorded as such

I've had ALL these, and I am of course just one person. Todays appointment was cancelled by them at 8am, it was a rebook from the last one they cancelled at 8am four weeks earlier, and then didn't rebook as they'd put it down that I'd failed to show. I found this out when I gave up waiting for the promised letter, and played Chase Me Charlie phoning and emailing til I got a real person.

The three contact phone/emails on the letters one department sends me are either unanswered or take you through a feedback loop where you can't input the information it asks for. These numbers are answered randomly, at times no one publicises. Emails go unanswered for 20 days or more.

I think also, the NHS forgets, it is often dealing with people suffering disability and chronic illness. This can mean last minute cancellations and inability to get in touch, particularly if contact is difficult. Its hard enough chasing them about when you're with it and functioning. Trying to do so through heavy pain medication and brain fog is like some kind of Crystal Maze meets Mastermind challenge.

So no, I am not remotely surprised at the figures, nor am I surprised if theres no accurate recording of WHY people no-show.

They could have died? When I worked in immigration I'd often do a bail list and ask for the judge to order detention as the person was a no show - only to find that they had in fact died! It happened reasonably regularly.

Must be a high chance of on a surgical waiting list?

I'm sure almost as many people can't cope with reading letters.

You can't insist on using letters when other forms of communication are far more efficient and cheaper. It'd be like still using carrier pigeon or smoke signals after the postal service was developed.

Damn I forgot to add to my list..

• Died waiting.
• Probably will die waiting for Patient Transport to show up.
• Ditto, waiting for an accessible taxi service to show up.

In theory you are not being unreasonable.
But having to negotiate care in the NHS for my Dad, I suspect there is more to those no shows than they are claiming. Dad has had appointments for surgery cancelled without being told, apparently he was informed (nope). He's had appointments made when he was in hospital at a different hospital and when we've cancelled, the message hadn't been passed on to the relevant person resulting in him being accused of not turning up. This has happened more than once. Phones aren't answered and you have no idea whether voicemail have been listened to or not. Letters arrive with appointments after the date of the appointment.

agreed… initial phone call should be made for booking in appointments and then follow up in writing. Giving patients the opportunity for email/snail mail delivery! Won’t account for everyone but would be a start.

Yup, had a diagnostic procedure today. In advance, I had a text that I had to confirm yes to, then I had a reminder that told me how much money would be wasted if I didn't attend.

And the other person in my slot still didn't turn up! I mean,WTF.

@Florenz so bugger the poor elderly and disabled people with hospital appointments then i.e. those most likely to have appointments.
Who do you think goes to hospital most? Your 80 year old man, or 50 year old man?

@Florenz Consultant on this thread said only 10% of her patients even had an email address.

I have a different side to tell. A colleague took a day off to take his wife to a difficult to get to hospital for a procedure. Got there, oh no dr is ill next appointment November 23. Why no text/message to save them the journey?

DD and I have both either not received a letter telling us of an appointment or it's arrived after the appointment. Also, trying to cancel is rubbish.

Exactly what I was going to write. However, if they are still alive, it’s inexcusable. Shocking waste of resources.

Sorry but you really come across badly here

sight issues, arthritic fingers, brains deteriorating from a range of conditions...I imagine the people still using tech will be happy to be contacted that way. but those who are not will need letters and phone calls.

I actually don't think that's too much to ask from the NHS and I generally feel the demands on the NHS are too high.

do you realise the health service is there to help? Otherwise I have no idea why I am paying taxes.

At what point do I say "enough is enough"? Well, if we are going to bother looking after sick people and elderly people, I don't say "enough is enough" the level of phone calls and letters. It's not that complicated, the bank and the GP manage to contact mum through her preferred methods.

I would say "enough is enough" about a lot of things provided by the NHS, sure, but that's a whole other thread.

In Wales, they phone, write a letter, then follow up with an email, so the only excuse for a no show is the grim reaper.

I recently had to spend half an hour on hold just to cancel an appointment. I perservered and did eventually get through, but I'm sure a lot of people with less time would've given up and not bothered.

@AutumnCrow our clinic calls every patient due up that week within 72 hours of their appt to remind them, check they’ve got transport etc, but about 80% people don’t answer calls if they don’t know the number, and a good number don’t have ansaphones. The trust number is a local landline looking number, not withheld etc. Calling everyone is unbelievably time consuming and DNA rate stuck at 20%.