To think that if the NHS sends you an appointment for a significant surgical procedure, you turn up>

[XingMing]

DH has waited two years for a (complicated) day surgery on his heart. He turned up for it at 7 am this morning and of the six scheduled booked patients, two arrived. There was a surgical team of ten arranged, who stood around waiting. If this is the normal, and the doctors, surgeons and nurses seemed to think it was, then complaints about underfunding the nhs funding needs should be kicked backed to the public. It's reasonable to expect the treatment paid for via taxation, but it is unreasonable to be so cavalier about non attendance. This was a procedure that cost the NHS £20k or more in salary costs... and two-thirds of the list were no shows. Can you tell that I am incensed for the people on waiting lists and the taxpayers funding the waste? For the record, the roads were all clear.

It's just horrible. I only worked for NHS/private dentist, and people really waste precious NHS time that someone else could benefit from.

I recently had a hospital appointment and received my letter when I got home from work the day before my appointment. I’d waited 3 months for that.

However I know that not all DNAs are down to late letters. People abuse things they get for “free”. If they were charged for DNA they would at least ring up and cancel.

... except in all the cases that PPs have highlighted where patients have not been informed of appointments due to NHS admin issues and not because they CBA attending

Whether it's letters not being sent out at all; letters sent with the wrong information; letters being sent in the post with less than 48hrs between when it was sent and when the appointment is; letters/texts randomly sent to entirely wrong addresses/numbers; departments making it impossible to cancel an appointment that the patient cannot attend or any number of other issue, charging people is not going to chang the fact that if you don't have the admin set up to ensure all information is disseminated correctly then you can't charge someone for not receiving information you cannot guarantee was sent correctly.

Not everyone pays tax (or pays enough tax) - that is the problem, if other people are funding the majority of the cost then the cost (both in terms of money and wasted time) is not seen by those missing appointments because they consider it all "free" and having no value to them.

I have a lot of hospital appointments.

I had one come through for the next day in the post. Problem was I was at another appointment in a different hospital at that time.

I rang and rang for over 5 hours - I started ringing at 12 noon or so and I rang the number on the letter (it put me into a press 1 then 2 loop then rang out and cut off) and the main switchboard. Constantly.

The next day I rang from I got up (the appointment was at 1.45pm) and I rang the whole way on the hospital transport until I got to my other appointment.

I asked at that appointment if they could ring for me. No. They couldn't.

Eventually got through the next day and the receptionist reduced me to tears did I not know how much the appointment cost etc etc.

Turned out she only worked mornings Monday Wednesday and Friday and if there was a clinic and she wasn't there the phone rang out.

But I was a DNA.

How was that my fault? Why should I have been fined for that?

I'm disabled. I work full time in a high pressure senior role.

I regularly get appointments in the post with 2-3 days notice

My private healthcare won't cover them because they're a pre existing medical condition or I would use my company benefit.

It's a mess.

I've never had a text about an appointment from the NHS. That would be something if they could implement that.

?

Everyone pays tax whether income tax or vat.

Also. WRT op saying the roads were clear.

The roads where my main hospital is will be clear because it's in a city. The main roads to that city will be clear.

However, the 7 miles of ungritted roads I'd have to drive to get to a gritted road to get to the appointment are not clear even yet. My avenue is like a bottle. I have not been out the door since before the weekend as I am unsteady on my feet.

Yes they should. But my son turned up for a minor operation, taking unpaid leave, only to be told it had been cancelled as no doctor in.
Same thing happened to me last year.
If they cancel they should bloody well inform people.

@Talaforniababe

For some people, Yes

For many, No

My DMIL had dementia and was in the 'care' of her DD. She DNAed all her medical appointments in the last five years if her life because SIL simply hid the letters and ignored them. We found them after DMIL died. Maybe safeguarding reports should extend to elderly people who DNA as well as children.

I have experienced most of what PPs have said, including not receiving the letter confirming my surgery appointment and having an OP appointment cancelled by letter which arrived at home while I was already sitting in the waiting room!

NHS admin has been shocking for years and is getting worse.

Having recieved appointment letters after the date of the appointment and having attempted to cancel appointment by phoning, leaving messages and so on, i have some sympathy that some of these missing people didnt know they were supposed to be there, or had rung and cancelled but the message never got to the right place.

Unless they don't even know about the bloody appointment.
As I already said, only last week I was supposed to have (according to GP who booked it) a phone consult. Which after the fact turned out to be a physical in a set place appointment. One, I would never have made it there being unable to drive or in fact leave the house, two, as it was supposed to be over the phone I had no bloody idea where the place was. Never given an address, why would i for a phone consult?

But if we were going to go down the fining people route, then it has to be two way. Next time i go to the GP for anything at all and I'm waiting an hour past my set consult time, i want to fine them, and then they can phone my workplace to say why I'm so late back.
And if it's a hospital thing I want more money, because it probably will cost me a day off, then another when its inexplicably cancelled.

I agree.

There was a thread on here not that long ago where the abusive DH was using the tactic of threatening to withhold transport from the OP to get her to a hospital appointment for surgery the following morning. She couldn't drive herself, had very little access to money, and was rural. The relationship was breaking down but she needed to rely on an unreliable man.

Different people are 'chaotic' in different ways.

It would be almost impossible to weed out the actual arrogant wankers from those who are in some way vulnerable and for whom a fine would be catastrophic.

I work in a GP out of hours surgery and the amount of people that don’t turn up for appointments is ridiculous and so frustrating, especially when people can’t complain about getting appointments.

I already posted about calling weekly to check on a referral, to eventually be told they’d been trying to make contact and I hadn’t got back to them so a new referral was needed. They called this morning with an appointment next week, I am grateful for the appointment but if I’d kept waiting for the letter it would never have come. I was told ut would be 6 months to 2 years though so I don’t know what to believe.

So if appointment A clashes with appointment B and despite trying you couldn't get hold of anyone to cancel 1 of those appointments ,they would still have to pay as a DNA....unless you have the ability to be in 2 places at the same time, that's not really going to work is it?

My original post was born out of indignation and frustration on Tuesday, after the day case surgery that DH attended had 66% DNAs. I don't know that much about it as I'm not involved professionally, so it's based on my experience and what HCPs have said to me. Obviously, I have read the whole thread (only polite). Because we only have one big general hospital within 50 miles, it's the only one I know, but I've had breast cancer and auto-immune ezcema over the last 18 months, and DH has a 15 year history of heart problems, plus we've recently had to assist the residental care unit organising appointments for DMIL (93 with dementia), until she fell and fractured her femur, so I have seen a lot of it recently!

It's well-evidenced that all hospitals' appointment systems are not the same, and no two departments within the same hospital communicate with any of the rest, but either we have been incredibly lucky or the hospital is actually organised enough to send appointment letters out several weeks ahead, followed by text reminders and a live confirmation phone call to check that the patient is attending. The timing often runs late, but sometimes a clinic speeds up too. I can see how difficult transport might be if you can't or don't drive, and that last-minute appointments are a PITA if you work shifts or have an unhelpful employer.

However, as hospitals are for ill people, most people will feel stressed or worried about what's happening to them/the patient.

My experience of mutualised French medicine is that it works better for patients, because it's so much less centralised and the patient is more in control of when and where to seek treatment. And now, the cost is not much higher than the NHS while the outcomes are significantly better. I lived in the US too, and we all know that healthcare there can be either brilliant, if you have solid medical benefits, or dreadful if not.

My instinct says that fining DNAs isn't the right approach and would quickly turn into a bureaucratic collection nightmare. But failures to attend need some form of sanction. I just don't know what would be fair. That's why I asked what the hive thought.

The majority of the clinics I attend send text reminders which are great.

The one that didn't sent (allegedly) an appt letter which I didn't receive. Fortunately it was a phone checkup so not much harm was done. That said it really annoyed me as I hate being late or a no show for anything like that.

I have voted that YABU. My reason is that this week my DH was sent (by email that I still have forwrding set up for) details of an NHS appointment that had been arranged for him in March.

He died more than two years ago. I wonder how many other DNAs have died whilst waiting for an appointment.

There's so much illness presently I wouldn't be surprised if for important surgery most cancellations are illness related

Why sanction, OP? Why not investigation?

I’ve had an urgent referral to a breast clinic and got a phone call yesterday that I couldn’t take. She left a message with the time and date of my appointment, no number to call back and when I managed to find a number, no-one answering calls. This is normal as far as I am concerned. I always drop everything to attend my appointments but this time I many not get there because of rail strikes. I don’t know how the hell to inform them if they won’t pick up or allow me to leave a message. It’s just rubbish and adds anxiety to an already anxious time. They need to do better in making themselves available to patients to contact them.

I should add we haven’t had any post for over two weeks in our area and no sign of anything coming through so a letter for an appointment just wouldn’t reach me.