To think there's nothing left to try (13 month old sleep)

[nurserypolitics]

At my wits end and concerned for my husband's health.

We have been night-weaning and I suppose sleep training DD2 for 2 months. So far, this involves my husband putting her to sleep. She has a bedtime routine (downstairs final breastfeed with me, upstairs for stories, sleeping bag, then placed in cot by him with white noise). She usually grumbles and tries to sit up, and he gently places her so she's lying down again in the cot. Then repeat. The 'norm' is after 5 minutes of this she rolls over and falls asleep, but some nights there are 10-15 minutes of her crying.

Then, if she wakes, he sleeps in the room with her and will usually shush her and then if needed pat her, and then if needed pick her up.

We had a similar approach with DD1 and within about two weeks she woke no more than once or twice a night, and all she wanted was a hand on her back to reassure her someone was there and she'd go back to sleep. We co-slept and this was fine.

So far, DD2 is still waking and crying for an average of ten minutes at least three or four times a night. Some nights she's woken every hour. The odd - very odd - night she's slept for up to 7 hours without a wakeup. Last night she woke at 4, cried for 40 minutes, I gave in and fed her and she fed pretty much till morning.

For a period of this early on she was sick and I co-slept and fed her but tbh it was awful for both of us, DD1 would co-sleep and actually sleep, DD2 co-slept as a younger baby but is clearly not comfy doing so now. She throws her head back and wriggles and can't sleep. If she does feed all night its clear it also makes her uncomfortable in terms of her digestion. So its not a case of persevering with this to get 'perfect' sleep its that there seem to be no other options.

Currently we have:

• Clear short bedtime routine
• Good daytime nap routine
• Goes to sleep in cot (with someone there but usually no patting etc)

If I try to put her down it doesn't work at all, she just wants me to feed her to sleep. DH has had nothing but unbroken sleep for months and has returned to work and can't go on. He genuinely looks unwell.

I would try co-sleeping and feeding her to sleep but a) we'd need to sell our bed to do it safely and b) where we've tried it it clearly doesn't improve things. I don't want to do controlled crying and certainly not cry it out in the sense of leaving her but ended up accidentally doing something not dissimilar a few weeks ago when DH had to go away for a couple of nights and I had to deal with DD1 who kept being woken by the crying and she basically ended up hysterical.

Is there something I've forgotten? We can try something new over Christmas but something needs to change. I have looked up similar threads but everything focuses on night-weaning/getting them fall asleep in the cot or co-sleeping and we've tried all that but its still terrible.

. If either of us went near them during the grumble screech waking they would be up for ages. Its like they were annoyed at waking up then grouching themselves back to sleep.

Both mine were like this at various phases. God help you if you picked up the youngest when it happened, it made it SO much worse!

To be honest OP, I think you are doing all the right things and you just need to keep at it. She's only a baby and I know sleep deprivation is torture but there are loads of bugs going round at the moment so she may be coming down with something if she has managed not night feeding for a while.

You have my full sympathy as I literally tried everything (other than CIO) and I was so sleep deprived for years but this too shall pass as they say.

I'd be putting her onto formula

Agree. It will pass. I know that sounds like small comfort, but babies change so fast.

Have you tried making sure you both get a good dose of daylight as soon as it's available in the morning and through the daytime to make sure your circadian rhythm, melatonin etc is clear when night and morning are? Apparently melatonin goes into breast milk.

Have you looked into health reasons? It can be hard to tell what's wrong with such small children but acid reflux can cause little ones to wake a lot (worse when lying down). My daughter turned out to get it from milk (incl. Bf) which was a nightmare but infant ranitidine was good. And then she had night time asthma when she got a bit older. With both it was finding the right diagnosis and getting treatment that solved the sleep issues.

Thanks all for the feedback.

@FlyingPandas I think its fair to call me out on not breaking the association that mummy = feed. We've tried to introduce 'loveys' etc, neither of my children have ever had the slightest interest in getting comfort from anything other than people. The 4 year old remains immune to the charms of teddies and dolls. We assumed she'd adapt quite quickly to going to sleep without a feed - which she did - and then we could swap me in, but that hasn't worked and its now two months on so I guess I will need to suck it up and start trying to alternate bedtimes. I tried a few weeks ago when my husband was away - this was when I gave in ultimately - and I can't describe how awful it was, she screamed hysterically literally for 90 minutes, I did pick her up at 15 minute intervals to try and soothe her but she kept trying to work her head down my body.

My eldest was a horrific sleeper, much worse than this one, and interestingly did have underlying medical issues. We've checked this one out for reflux/allergies and I think its not an issue but who knows if there's something minor. However the eldest did take much easier to sleep and night weaning at this age, but it was also the point where we'd cut out allergens and medicated the reflux.

I think it is very unlikely she is hungry. We have offered formula in the night a few times. I breastfed my eldest morning and nighttime till she was two, having night-weaned at 9 months and I found it invaluable when she was ill and a nice way to connect, I don't think she's crying because she wants a feed so much as she wants comfort, and I don't see how stopping feeding in the day time will have an effect.

A question though about the 'controlled crying' - my understanding is its all about getting them to sleep on their own. But she will sleep in the cot with minimal intervention and also her cot is in our room. Often in the night she will wake up, roll over, see someone is in bed next to her and go back to sleep. The problem is other times she'll cry for ten minutes then go back to sleep - while left in the cot, so essentially I don't see how its different than controlled crying it just hasn't abated after two months. And it can be every two hours in the night. I don't really see what controlled crying offers except changing what she's already got used to, and possibly introducing an expectation - sleeping in an empty room - that won't be her reality as she'll be sharing with us then her sister for the foreseeable.

(for the poster who asked why co-sleeping would mean selling the bed, Its a superking and she's a crawler and explorer: our room isn't big enough to have the bed with the mattress on the floor next to it and its too high to have her safely in it with the two of us)

I suppose over Christmas probably what we need to do is alternate putting her down, and put v clear sleep plans in place so we're both following exactly the same steps. It does feel like we're in an awkward place, and maybe she's not ready: I guess the back up plan is once again working out the minimal sleep we can both survive on and seeing how we can achieve that....

Could she still be hungry after her last breastfeed of the night? Could you also give her a top up bottle of formula after the breastfeed just to get her full?