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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... or is my new boss?

27 replies

kittifer · 10/12/2022 21:46

My first thread (although been reading and occasionally commenting for years) so please be gentle...

I started a new job about 7 weeks ago, it is a role I have done before (project management type of thing) but in a new industry. I know I was not the first choice at interview (first choice turned them down) but they offered it to me and as it is a bit more money and I thought it would be good to have a new challenge I accepted.

From day 1 I have not felt particularly welcome. I was given the desk of someone who was on sick leave but he is now back so I have no desk I have to ask every morning if there is somewhere I can sit. I have no other resources and I also did not get a proper induction and have had to figure a lot of things out by myself. I haven't been given any objectives or told of anything specific I needed to do. I have sort of been expected to figure out what needed doing and do it.

I knew it would be a learning curve so I have thrown myself into understanding my new industry, meeting people, getting to grips with the requirements of the job which has meant quite a lot of desk research when not at meetings.

Yesterday I had a 1 to 1 with my boss where he basically told me that he was very disappointed and he had expected me to hit the ground running and I haven't. He mentioned some things he thought I would have done by now - this was the first time I had heard of any of them. He also told me off for asking for some information in a meeting (he said I should have been all over that before now). When I told him why I had not done as much as he might have expected (no resources, having to figure it out for myself in a new industry), he said I was playing the victim. He also said that other people have asked what I am doing as I seem to sit at a desk all day.

We left the meeting with him saying that I should think over the weekend whether I really wanted this job (not sure I do now but can't afford to quit).

So who is being unreasonable here and what should I do?

And sorry this was long and thanks for reading

OP posts:
JennyForeigner · 10/12/2022 21:51

OK definitely not you. That's completely unreasonable.

Has your manager actually sat with you and talked you through what you are expected to be working on?

If you are an experienced PM there is a world of work out there for you. Wherever this goes, don't let a bad work experience feel personal. You'll bounce back.

HelplessSoul · 10/12/2022 21:51

Fair to say your manager is a cunt.

Calling you a "victim" instead of helping you as a new entrant speaks volumes.

Either go above him and raise a grievance or find a better job. Its clear your manager doesn't have your back.

felulageller · 10/12/2022 21:53

I had a similar experience in a job. It sounds shambolic. I don't think a long term recovery is possible. Look for a new job asap. In the meantime do what you can to get a decent reference.

wildseas · 10/12/2022 21:53

Honest answer is probably a bit of both.

It sounds like you aren't meeting the expectations of the role, and that your boss has been a bit shit in explaining those expectations to you.

I'd take tomorrow to lick your wounds, re-read the job description, advert and any training materials that they have given you.

Then I'd go in on Monday and ask for an hours 1-2-1 with your manager. Explain clearly that there were some things which came up in your previous meeting which weren't set out as expectations in job description or training and that you want to be 100% sure you're meeting all expectations.

Have what he's already set in a spreadsheet, add anything discussed ad then send it through to him asking him to let you know if there is anything not on the list (save all correspondance). If they;re reasonable then work towards them, if any aren't reasonable then you need to push back.

If he brings up other things not on the list after you've done that then you need to go to HR / his boss.

mrspotatoes · 10/12/2022 21:55

What an absolute dick!! Look for new job asap. Perhaps write you manager an email stating all the things you are struggling with and a plan of how you can sort it 'together'

Timeforabiscuit · 10/12/2022 21:56

If you want to stay in the job, then you're going to going to have to document everything, and start flinging more issues your bosses way - where is your desk? It should have been sorted, or you find one.

You sound a little bit passive, so I would go down swinging and crack on.

However, it doesn't look good, they aren't supporting you, or being communicative, or especially welcoming, so if there are options to explore I would, a crap boss can destroy your confidence which isn't easily substituted for a pay cheque.

Whattodo182 · 10/12/2022 21:57

Shit manager
Shit company
Shit induction

I HATE companies/bosses like this with an absolute burning passion.

Look for a new job NOW but please make your bosses life as miserable as possible by demanding he does better in the interim.

ScroogeMcDuckling · 10/12/2022 22:13

Keep a note of all conversations and try to do as much via email!!

Goodadvice1980 · 10/12/2022 22:19

I would never take a job where I was second choice. I’d quit and be honest about the reasons why. Has your old job been filled yet? Could you go back?

kittifer · 11/12/2022 00:04

Thanks so much for the responses. It is good to know it is not me.

Responses to a few of the comments:

No, my manager has not talked me through what he wants me to work on. Until yesterday I had only had 2 twenty minute sessions with him and in one of them he phoned someone else half way through and had a chat.

I am an experienced PM, but the industry I was in before is quite niche, another reason I decided to move to broaden my experience. I was in my last job over 10 years was good at my job and completed projects worth millions of pounds.

Don't think going above my manager would work, only person above him is the CEO and I have heard he really rates my boss as he "gets results"

I did try to find a desk for myself, I spoke to estates and they found me a desk in an annex next to the main building. I told my boss and he just said he didn't want me in there he wanted me in the main building. Then he left the room. I don't even have anywhere to hang my coat or leave my bag.

I probably was being a bit passive. Maybe I should have shouted up earlier about getting more support or direction.

Another thing my boss said yesterday was that he expected me to be like a rottweiler. I am not, have never been and nor would I want to be a rottweiler - it's not my work style at all. I did explain at interview that would work style was collaborative.

Old job has already been filled (by my old line report who I trained and is great, I am pleased he got the job, and he sent me a lovely card when I left saying how much he had learned from me and what a great boss I had been) so I can't go back.

Looks like my options are quit now and live off savings and hope I find something else quickly, hang in there but look for another job and quit when I find one, or try to make it work. To be honest if that is his opinion of me now I am not sure it will ever work long term, so really it is whether it would be better for me (and my cv) to quit now or find another job and then quit.

OP posts:
Mosaic123 · 12/12/2022 17:25

Your second option - hang in there but look for another job -seems like the safest plan (financially), as long as you can stay sane.

And having made that decision you should feel a little better even though you are still there.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 12/12/2022 17:29

Call estates back, tell them what you want and carve out a space to put it.

Tell your boss you want weekly meetings 30 minutes, no phones, you can both shape the job to meet your needs and abilities. If he wants you to be a rottweiler then treat him accordingly.

Take charge. Manage...

Best of luck

whatisforteamum · 12/12/2022 17:42

I feel for you OP.
My new boss hasn't helped me settle in really and the induction was non existent.
Now I'm finding out I have to tell someone I'm going to the loo in case of fire.
I've been there almost 2 months.
I sign the fire register too.
I think you should embrace the new role while keeping an eye open for something else.

Greenfairydust · 12/12/2022 18:14

I am sorry but it sounds like you have taken a job with a rubbish company and manager.

You should have had a proper induction and they should have set clear objectives for you. His comments are also completely inappropriate.

I would start looking for a new job.

Personally I would quit on the spot because they sound unprofessional and unpleasant but you might want to hang on for a bit while you look for something else.

I wonder if he is doing this on purpose because he had someone else in mind for the job and is hoping you will leave.

KettrickenSmiled · 12/12/2022 18:22

Hi Boss

Further to our meeting of 09-12-22, I am writing to acknowledge your offer to "take the weekend to consider whether you want this job" & want to confirm that I am just as interested in this job, & making a success of it, as I was when I accepted it.

During the meeting, you said you had some concerns, but when I tried to respond to you with specifics, you shut down my response by telling me not to "play the victim." This was disconcerting, as victim-hood is not my style: I prefer to deal with any problems in an honest & forthright manner. Unfortunately, given the tone you set in that meeting & with that remark, I felt temporarily unable to defend myself from what felt like an unwarranted personal discourtesy.

To recap what you described as concerns:
You said - verbatim - that you "expected me to hit the ground running" & feel "disappointed" that apparently I have not. I do not find this a constructive approach, as it is impossible to respond to, or attempt to remedy, non-specific, vague criticisms.

You then mentioned the specific points ABC & XYZ, asking why they were not done by now, which was startling as this is the ONLY time you have mentioned ABC & XYZ to me. It's not possible for me to work on topics you have not told me about, so this also left me feeling bewildered & unsettled.

Your next point was to tell me off for asking questions in meetings. As a new starter, asking questions is exactly what I need to do, in order to perform the required role. When I attempted to explain this to you, you cut me off with the "victim" comment above.

You also criticised the fact that I sit at a desk, implying that I spend too much time at it. When not in face-to-face meetings, a large part of my role involves desk-based research, so I am puzzled why you felt I am doing anything wrong by basing myself at a desk while in research mode.

Finally, you said that "other people have been asking what you do all day." This is another vaguely-worded criticism, & I also take issue with bringing unnamed third party opinions to a meeting, & talking about them as if they are substantive facts. It felt to me as if you were presenting your own opinion in the guise of belonging to other people. Obviously I have no idea what - if anything - has been said behind my back, & if it was a management technique, I can only say it's not one that I have ever been subject to previously, or would use myself.

I have attempted to raise several issues of my own to you previously, but you would not discuss them & have not addressed them, so I will lay them out below for clarity:

  • I have no desk, & need to cast around for one each morning, wasting time & diminishing focus.
  • 7 weeks in, I still have had no formal induction process, despite asking about it many times.
  • I still have not been given any list of objectives, specific tasks, or broader goals - & in our meeting, you used exactly that lack of documented direction to berate me for not being up to speed on objectives, tasks & goals. Anybody would be dismayed to be presented with a 'Catch-22' situation like that.

I'm aware that I was not your first choice for this job, but I accepted it in good faith & intend to discharge my responsibilities in good faith. It is disappointing to have been given the impression that you would like to manage me out by vague insinuations & not-very-subtly coded invitations to resign. I would prefer to address the 3 primary concerns I bulleted above, & make a success of this job, working for a manager who gives me the direction & support any new starter needs. If you do not wish me to do that, I prefer that you deal with that honestly, & either stop making baseless insinuations, or allow me to report elsewhere within the management structure.

I hope that something productive & professional can be salvaged from that negative meeting last week. Please let me know if you wish to continue acting as my line manager, or prefer to hand my management to a colleague to progress with.

Regards
Kittifer
cc: HR

Lolapusht · 12/12/2022 18:31

KettrickenSmiled · 12/12/2022 18:22

Hi Boss

Further to our meeting of 09-12-22, I am writing to acknowledge your offer to "take the weekend to consider whether you want this job" & want to confirm that I am just as interested in this job, & making a success of it, as I was when I accepted it.

During the meeting, you said you had some concerns, but when I tried to respond to you with specifics, you shut down my response by telling me not to "play the victim." This was disconcerting, as victim-hood is not my style: I prefer to deal with any problems in an honest & forthright manner. Unfortunately, given the tone you set in that meeting & with that remark, I felt temporarily unable to defend myself from what felt like an unwarranted personal discourtesy.

To recap what you described as concerns:
You said - verbatim - that you "expected me to hit the ground running" & feel "disappointed" that apparently I have not. I do not find this a constructive approach, as it is impossible to respond to, or attempt to remedy, non-specific, vague criticisms.

You then mentioned the specific points ABC & XYZ, asking why they were not done by now, which was startling as this is the ONLY time you have mentioned ABC & XYZ to me. It's not possible for me to work on topics you have not told me about, so this also left me feeling bewildered & unsettled.

Your next point was to tell me off for asking questions in meetings. As a new starter, asking questions is exactly what I need to do, in order to perform the required role. When I attempted to explain this to you, you cut me off with the "victim" comment above.

You also criticised the fact that I sit at a desk, implying that I spend too much time at it. When not in face-to-face meetings, a large part of my role involves desk-based research, so I am puzzled why you felt I am doing anything wrong by basing myself at a desk while in research mode.

Finally, you said that "other people have been asking what you do all day." This is another vaguely-worded criticism, & I also take issue with bringing unnamed third party opinions to a meeting, & talking about them as if they are substantive facts. It felt to me as if you were presenting your own opinion in the guise of belonging to other people. Obviously I have no idea what - if anything - has been said behind my back, & if it was a management technique, I can only say it's not one that I have ever been subject to previously, or would use myself.

I have attempted to raise several issues of my own to you previously, but you would not discuss them & have not addressed them, so I will lay them out below for clarity:

  • I have no desk, & need to cast around for one each morning, wasting time & diminishing focus.
  • 7 weeks in, I still have had no formal induction process, despite asking about it many times.
  • I still have not been given any list of objectives, specific tasks, or broader goals - & in our meeting, you used exactly that lack of documented direction to berate me for not being up to speed on objectives, tasks & goals. Anybody would be dismayed to be presented with a 'Catch-22' situation like that.

I'm aware that I was not your first choice for this job, but I accepted it in good faith & intend to discharge my responsibilities in good faith. It is disappointing to have been given the impression that you would like to manage me out by vague insinuations & not-very-subtly coded invitations to resign. I would prefer to address the 3 primary concerns I bulleted above, & make a success of this job, working for a manager who gives me the direction & support any new starter needs. If you do not wish me to do that, I prefer that you deal with that honestly, & either stop making baseless insinuations, or allow me to report elsewhere within the management structure.

I hope that something productive & professional can be salvaged from that negative meeting last week. Please let me know if you wish to continue acting as my line manager, or prefer to hand my management to a colleague to progress with.

Regards
Kittifer
cc: HR

Brava! Outstanding reply!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Whitecitygirl · 12/12/2022 18:42

KettrickenSmiled · 12/12/2022 18:22

Hi Boss

Further to our meeting of 09-12-22, I am writing to acknowledge your offer to "take the weekend to consider whether you want this job" & want to confirm that I am just as interested in this job, & making a success of it, as I was when I accepted it.

During the meeting, you said you had some concerns, but when I tried to respond to you with specifics, you shut down my response by telling me not to "play the victim." This was disconcerting, as victim-hood is not my style: I prefer to deal with any problems in an honest & forthright manner. Unfortunately, given the tone you set in that meeting & with that remark, I felt temporarily unable to defend myself from what felt like an unwarranted personal discourtesy.

To recap what you described as concerns:
You said - verbatim - that you "expected me to hit the ground running" & feel "disappointed" that apparently I have not. I do not find this a constructive approach, as it is impossible to respond to, or attempt to remedy, non-specific, vague criticisms.

You then mentioned the specific points ABC & XYZ, asking why they were not done by now, which was startling as this is the ONLY time you have mentioned ABC & XYZ to me. It's not possible for me to work on topics you have not told me about, so this also left me feeling bewildered & unsettled.

Your next point was to tell me off for asking questions in meetings. As a new starter, asking questions is exactly what I need to do, in order to perform the required role. When I attempted to explain this to you, you cut me off with the "victim" comment above.

You also criticised the fact that I sit at a desk, implying that I spend too much time at it. When not in face-to-face meetings, a large part of my role involves desk-based research, so I am puzzled why you felt I am doing anything wrong by basing myself at a desk while in research mode.

Finally, you said that "other people have been asking what you do all day." This is another vaguely-worded criticism, & I also take issue with bringing unnamed third party opinions to a meeting, & talking about them as if they are substantive facts. It felt to me as if you were presenting your own opinion in the guise of belonging to other people. Obviously I have no idea what - if anything - has been said behind my back, & if it was a management technique, I can only say it's not one that I have ever been subject to previously, or would use myself.

I have attempted to raise several issues of my own to you previously, but you would not discuss them & have not addressed them, so I will lay them out below for clarity:

  • I have no desk, & need to cast around for one each morning, wasting time & diminishing focus.
  • 7 weeks in, I still have had no formal induction process, despite asking about it many times.
  • I still have not been given any list of objectives, specific tasks, or broader goals - & in our meeting, you used exactly that lack of documented direction to berate me for not being up to speed on objectives, tasks & goals. Anybody would be dismayed to be presented with a 'Catch-22' situation like that.

I'm aware that I was not your first choice for this job, but I accepted it in good faith & intend to discharge my responsibilities in good faith. It is disappointing to have been given the impression that you would like to manage me out by vague insinuations & not-very-subtly coded invitations to resign. I would prefer to address the 3 primary concerns I bulleted above, & make a success of this job, working for a manager who gives me the direction & support any new starter needs. If you do not wish me to do that, I prefer that you deal with that honestly, & either stop making baseless insinuations, or allow me to report elsewhere within the management structure.

I hope that something productive & professional can be salvaged from that negative meeting last week. Please let me know if you wish to continue acting as my line manager, or prefer to hand my management to a colleague to progress with.

Regards
Kittifer
cc: HR

Wow!!!! I think you’re my new career crush!

Justeatmorecake · 12/12/2022 18:43

@KettrickenSmiled Amazing! That’s really kind of you to take the time to write that too

KettrickenSmiled · 12/12/2022 18:50

Thank you @Lolapusht Blush

Obvs the OP may not want to take this approach, But this nasty insinuating little bully TOLD her he wants "a rottweiler" ...

I missed her update about it being a smallish firm with only the CEO above her line manager. So there might not be an HR presence. In OP'' shoes, Id be looking for a new job - but I'd be firing that off in the meantime, & given her update, cc:ing the CEO.

At this point - what's she got to lose?
They might even come back with a counteroffer of hush money, like - here's 3 months salary to piss off quietly.
Because while I was careful not to actually SAY so - the examples in the letter are such heinous HR-no-no's that somebody senior HAS to pay attention. The manager's tactics are actionable, if she wanted to go the union route (not sure how common this is in her role/industry). Constructive dismissal action worthy.
If she want to, OP can hone that letter to a sharp point with some seriously specific examples of her boss's unprofessional attempts to manage her out.

Even if the CEO does take the line manager's side, as she suspects (but doesn't yet know!) - at least OP's had her shout, & can leave knowing she stood up for herself. She may even find that her pushback is admired. She has a lot of experience under her belt, & multi-million pound project credentials. Her CEO deserves to know what his middle management is sneakily playing at. The worst case scenario is that the CEO condones it. OP then has the email as her own proof of what went down at the meeting, & know that if the CEO refuses to accept it, or even encourages this insinuating, bullying style - she's best off outta there.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 12/12/2022 19:00

Oh dear, first I would not send an email like the one @KettrickenSmiled wrote, unless it’s concluded with your resignation, even if it’s all true.

Here’s what I would do. Admit that you may have been a little passive (understandable). Next, sort yourself a desk. Meet with your boss and outline your understanding of the role. Start working on anything that he has specifically mentioned. But more importantly start identifying things in your scope that need done. Do you have a project yet? Lastly start collaborating, Hopefully by this time you’ve started to establish your network, if not get on that.

At 2 months in (with 10 years of prior experience) I would expect you to not be an expert but also not waiting for things to come to you. I will agree that the onboarding doesn’t sound ideal, and not how I would do it.

cherriegarcia · 12/12/2022 19:04

It's definitely not you. Sounds incredibly unwelcoming/ unsupportive and like your manager has no idea how to supervise and support new staff.

SmugglersHaunt · 12/12/2022 21:25

I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through this. He sounds vile and completely unprofessional. I’d look to move jobs ASAP if you can while also simultaneously trying to take him down in any way possible.

ThinWomansBrain · 12/12/2022 22:03

another option would be to talk to agencies about interim/temp work - presumably you're in a probationary period with fairly short notice.
Added plus is that if you fill an interim contract successfully, it will boost your confidence, and you'll have that to talk about at your next round of interviews.

kittifer · 20/12/2022 14:51

Hi everyone.
Thanks for all the comments.
@KettrickenSmiled that is a brilliant letter! Thank you for taking the time to do that.
My plan was to take a sort of hybrid approach and use some of the things in your letter, but in a face to face meeting.
However, not only did he refuse my request for a meeting last week, he has also cancelled our planned 1 to 1 which was due to be today. I have barely seen him since the horrid meeting so much so that I am beginning to think he is deliberately avoiding me. Not sure if that is some kind of tactic.
@saltinesandcoffeecups I do have projects to work on. I am not just waiting for things. I am just concerned that I am working on the right things since the mention of several projects I had not heard of before.
@ThinWomansBrain great idea about agencies. I will look in to that
Tomorrow is my last day before the Christmas break (he did at least approve my leave), so I will use the time away to start searching for new opportunities (and trying to think what I will ask at interview next time to try to avoid another boss like this).

OP posts:
ThinWomansBrain · 20/12/2022 15:01

Good luck, I hope it goes well - enjoy the break to 'detox' and distance yourself from the negatives.

I drifted into a pattern of interim roles unintentionally (to gain experience in a new sector) - & did it for about 20 years - aside from gaining loads of experience, it teaches you to be thick skinned, and the confidence not to put up with being treated really badly.

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