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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that people should be allowed to strike

191 replies

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 19:40

I get it causes inconvenience, and there has been lots of strikes lately Royal Mail, railway, nurses and now paramedics.

I caught on the news this morning that the government are looking to put a stop to strikes. I just don’t think it’s right to take aways peoples right to strike… These people work hard and deserve a decent wage.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Unicorn34 · 10/12/2022 13:48

When my husband was a firefighter I joined him and the crew on the picket line during the strikes of the early 2000's. Some 9f the things happening in the background really surprised me:

  1. The Union reps were still being paid!
  2. The Army personnel who were covering were driving past jeering and doing w**ker signs at us
  3. The firefighters still went out to fires, albeit unpaid and uninsured, because they just did! This wasn't reported ANYWHERE
  4. There were lovely people bringing tea, coffee, treats etc when you could see they probably couldn't afford it
  5. There was a huge amount of abuse from people driving past

The main Union man spent many hours having discussions in restaurants, all expenses paid, still taking his salary and ended up with a seat in Parliament!

It's fine to have an opinion but if it's derogatory then please do this knowing the actual facts and not what the papers want us to believe.

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 13:50

Unicorn34 · 10/12/2022 13:48

When my husband was a firefighter I joined him and the crew on the picket line during the strikes of the early 2000's. Some 9f the things happening in the background really surprised me:

  1. The Union reps were still being paid!
  2. The Army personnel who were covering were driving past jeering and doing w**ker signs at us
  3. The firefighters still went out to fires, albeit unpaid and uninsured, because they just did! This wasn't reported ANYWHERE
  4. There were lovely people bringing tea, coffee, treats etc when you could see they probably couldn't afford it
  5. There was a huge amount of abuse from people driving past

The main Union man spent many hours having discussions in restaurants, all expenses paid, still taking his salary and ended up with a seat in Parliament!

It's fine to have an opinion but if it's derogatory then please do this knowing the actual facts and not what the papers want us to believe.

I don't think you can make demands on how people post on an open forum like MN

By all means if you think talk guidelines have been breached , report.

PrincessConstance · 10/12/2022 14:32

pompei8309 · 08/12/2022 20:13

The one’s able to hold a country at ransom shouldn’t be allowed, and that should be clearly specified in their work contracts

I think this is what covid has revealed. Those looking after the infrastructure are really important and have been taken for granted for a long time. 20 yrs of no pay increase has revealed a deep inequality in society.
This applies across all sectors. Certainly, our 3 main service providers, police, health, and fire service are grossly underpaid.

However, the Uk public must understand goods and services must be paid for, not bargained for on the cheap. Look at the furore over cleaners, and hairdressers' pay, and tradesperson costs.

whateverwillhappennext · 10/12/2022 14:39

Why is pay for such professions like nurses, teachers, police, firefighters not linked to inflation, so there's no arguing every year about who gets what pay increase? If inflation is 10%, everyone gets 10%. No-one gets a real terms pay rise or pay cut. Then if they want more on top to improve their conditions of service, that's an argument they can have separately. Why has no striking union asked for a pay formula? Because whatever unions 'win' this year will be back to square on next year when they're striking again for pay at next years inflation.

PrincessConstance · 10/12/2022 14:59

whateverwillhappennext · 10/12/2022 14:39

Why is pay for such professions like nurses, teachers, police, firefighters not linked to inflation, so there's no arguing every year about who gets what pay increase? If inflation is 10%, everyone gets 10%. No-one gets a real terms pay rise or pay cut. Then if they want more on top to improve their conditions of service, that's an argument they can have separately. Why has no striking union asked for a pay formula? Because whatever unions 'win' this year will be back to square on next year when they're striking again for pay at next years inflation.

For 20 yrs wage inflation has been flat and now with this inflation surge pay has dropped. So I agree they need a longer-term plan.
Although I'm nearly sure these monetary demands will come at a cost in worker privileges and rights. Sickness in the public sector is incentivized and comparatively high in relation to other sectors.

DrManhattan · 10/12/2022 16:18

Magic money tree? What aload of bollocks - there is loads of money! Look how it is all being pissed away on defective PPE, rubbish like that. Money is being hoarded and not filtering down.

Stop believing the tory lies

Unicorn34 · 10/12/2022 17:29

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 13:50

I don't think you can make demands on how people post on an open forum like MN

By all means if you think talk guidelines have been breached , report.

Show quote history

I wasn't demanding how people report, just giving some info on the Fire Brigade strike (which I agreed with). People are free to say what they want.

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 17:37

DrManhattan · 10/12/2022 16:18

Magic money tree? What aload of bollocks - there is loads of money! Look how it is all being pissed away on defective PPE, rubbish like that. Money is being hoarded and not filtering down.

Stop believing the tory lies

You do know RM is privatised now and making losses of 500m a year?

How does that relate to PPE???

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 17:50

I've just had to refund another buyer whose parcel was sent in November and hadn't arrived.

Lost about £50 so far from these clowns and you want me to support the strikes??

Many bigger sellers are fucked if they continue to use them.

Florenz · 10/12/2022 17:54

RM workers need to accept things as they are, not as they would like them to be. If people can stuff delivered cheaper and more reliably by another company, they'll do that. It isn't the 70s when people used to wait with excitement for the postman to arrive, bringing letters, and the Royal Mail had a monopoly over mail. Things have moved on since then, and for the better.

MrsHamlet · 10/12/2022 18:10

Of course union officials get paid on strike days - they're working for the union on those days, not on strike. Union reps - people like me - will not get paid when we strike. We're not paid by the union but by our employers from whom we are withdrawing our labour.

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 18:44

Many businesses are being hurt by things not arriving and ebay basically enforce refunds. How is that compatible with people supporting the strikes at all costs, what about online retailers.

Many of whom are small independent businesses.

What about their pay which will be affected now.

Why are they less important?

Do people support them choosing to use alternate couriers?

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 18:49

Unicorn34 · 10/12/2022 17:29

I wasn't demanding how people report, just giving some info on the Fire Brigade strike (which I agreed with). People are free to say what they want.

Show quote history

Oki koki. I thought you were asking people to read up on it first. I don't need to know the full negotiating terms to see that fucking up your own employer is not the best idea for job security. Not if they aren't a monopoly or public sector.

I work in this field, restructuring businesses so know full well its not done for shits and giggles. Its done to make the organisations resource fit the business need.

SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 18:57

LindorDoubleChoc · 08/12/2022 20:34

We are going to have to swallow the price increases on our mortgage and utility bills and we both earn less than a train driver...

I'm not sure that the train drivers are on strike - they may be. The figures quoted for their earnings are usually utter rubbish. The Mail reported that they could earn £100,000.

That would take all possible available overtime, for the highest paid driver.

If you mean Mick Lynch & co, they're ancillary staff, guards, catering crew, ticket sellers etc. Most of them are on between £23,000 and something over £30 odd thousand.

The press then comes out with deliberate conflation between them and the drivers and many people think, "Greedy bastards are all on £65 grand a year, fuck them!"

Crispynoodle · 10/12/2022 18:58

Fragmentsof2022 · 08/12/2022 20:16

Of course we should be allowed to strike. It’s a bloody fundamental right to be able to withdraw our labour.

Solidarity with the strikers ✊🏻

And absolutely Fuck the Tories 🖕🏻

This

drpet49 · 10/12/2022 19:14

Quveas · 08/12/2022 19:43

If people want to strike, nothing in law will stop them. And good on them if they fight back. I'll be on their side, whatever the government throws at them.

I agree with this

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 19:38

They can be allowed to, yes

Whether it's in their best long term interests is another matter

You can't strike to change market conditions, talking RM here not nurses or ambulance

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 19:48

drpet49 · 10/12/2022 19:14

I agree with this

Show quote history

Would you agree to tax hikes to fund this?

Income tax vat etc as well as corporation tax and other forms

This will hit us all in the pocket but maybe you think that's worth it? Genuine question

DdraigGoch · 10/12/2022 19:52

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 13:43

They will treat the staff as well as they need to to get sufficient staff in.

In the private sector if you can't recruit to need, you look at your offering.

That's why people are leaving jobs like teaching assistant to go work at Tesco or Aldi.

Far more effective than strikes is workers either not choosing to work for an employer or going elsewhere shortly after starting IMHO.

Show quote history

Unfortunately many public sector (or quasi public sector) employers are failing to do just that. Schools, NHS and the railways are all short of staff because so many people are leaving, either into retirement or into better paid jobs with better conditions elsewhere.

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 19:56

I wonder if mass exodus of nurses TAs etc will shock govt into better funding, more than strikes?

Hasn't happened yet though!

I guess they haven't reached the break point where services literally no.longer work

Although I think it's getting close

DdraigGoch · 10/12/2022 21:07

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 19:56

I wonder if mass exodus of nurses TAs etc will shock govt into better funding, more than strikes?

Hasn't happened yet though!

I guess they haven't reached the break point where services literally no.longer work

Although I think it's getting close

Well the threat of an RMT work to rule is making Network Rail shit themselves. Overtime is used heavily to cover for staff shortages so staff refusing overtime will bring the chickens home to roost.

SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 21:33

Metabigot · Today 19:48

Would you agree to tax hikes to fund this?

Income tax vat etc as well as corporation tax and other forms

I'd go first with closing tax dodging schemes for the likes of Amazon, Starbucks and Facebook.

I remember reading a few years ago that, if they paid half what they really owe, the tax free bracket would be £20,000.

How can Starbucks, for example, report 15 years of losses, for tax purposes, yet pay out billions in shareholder dividends? Surely they're trading whilst insolvent; or lying.

Why should we be paying in work benefits to Tesco workers? Why don't they pay them enough? OK, we'd pay more for food, but all sales would be subject to tax, which would go to the general good.

Or perhaps, Michelle Mone's chiselling shit, unfit for purpose PPE, but you get the drift.

hettie · 10/12/2022 21:58

If we taxed wealth to even a fraction of what we tax earnings we'd be able to afford better infrastructure and public services.
If we don't allow strikes then people will just permenantly withdraw labour and leave for better prospects which is why we have such a recruitment crisis in health and social care and teaching

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 23:27

hettie · 10/12/2022 21:58

If we taxed wealth to even a fraction of what we tax earnings we'd be able to afford better infrastructure and public services.
If we don't allow strikes then people will just permenantly withdraw labour and leave for better prospects which is why we have such a recruitment crisis in health and social care and teaching

Er we do tax wealth at 45% over £100k I think? Not sure I know exact numbers.

Or do you mean the savings of the wealthy?

A lot of wealthy people although by no means all do philanthropy which gives them.a choice of where to help the less fortunate. Most major charities have philanthropy teams.

Maybe there could be some sort of philanthropy law or obligation if you earn £££ 💰

Some are just selfish cunts though

Metabigot · 11/12/2022 01:32

SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 21:33

Metabigot · Today 19:48

Would you agree to tax hikes to fund this?

Income tax vat etc as well as corporation tax and other forms

I'd go first with closing tax dodging schemes for the likes of Amazon, Starbucks and Facebook.

I remember reading a few years ago that, if they paid half what they really owe, the tax free bracket would be £20,000.

How can Starbucks, for example, report 15 years of losses, for tax purposes, yet pay out billions in shareholder dividends? Surely they're trading whilst insolvent; or lying.

Why should we be paying in work benefits to Tesco workers? Why don't they pay them enough? OK, we'd pay more for food, but all sales would be subject to tax, which would go to the general good.

Or perhaps, Michelle Mone's chiselling shit, unfit for purpose PPE, but you get the drift.

Agree businesses could be taxed more but it'd be tax from ordinary people through income/ vat etc too let's face it.

Incidentally min wage has doubled since I started working, pre min wage I was on £2.60 an hour for unskilled labour which is worth £4.70 today. It hiked up on the past 5 or so years. And deservedly so.

Still not a great amount but unless we change the capitalist system... which has never had a great outcome in history, it never will be.

I don't like capitalism, like I don't like rain in Manchester but I'm not sure it can really be much different?