To be embarrassed by my wage?

[pizzaintheoven]

We have an apprentice at work who works the same role but is more admin based. I am only on £3K more than him.

This is embarrassing right?

Why do people think people think they should be paid more than people doing doing apprenticeships.
The word apprenticeship covers a whole range of training programmes, many at graduate and management level, its not all office juniors and shelf stackers

Where I work apprentices do the same job as others on the same grade. So they get paid the same.

The op is paid £3k more than someone doing the same job. I don't see where the issue is.

Before you knew his wage were you happy with yours? Do you think you're underpaid for what you do? Could you justify asking for a payrise?

@Ted27 please read the op's responses. The op clearly explained that he/she would run an entire project and the apprentice would perform the administrative duties - how are these two roles the same? I don't think an apprentice should be paid in line with someone who's a lot more experienced . 3k more than an apprentice seems a bit of a kick in the teeth op. Are you saying that once the apprentice has completed their programme they will only earn an additional 3k? I doubt this would be the case so you are not being unreasonable to being upset over this!

So are you a project manager and they are a junior PMO?

Could you research the salaries of similar jobs in your sector? Use it in an argument for a pay rise, or apply for other jobs?

If you have been in your role a while could it be that you have gained skills which haven’t been recognised, so your wages have stagnated e.g. do they assume that you also are doing the admin role?

@cherry2727

And if you read the ops original post she clearly said they do the same role.
A good administrator is worth their weight in gold - and its not necessarily a 'lesser' skill set.
Mr role would be classed as an administration, people on my grade do all sorts of functions.
The op is still paid more than the other person, not the same, or less, more.

@pizzaintheoven

I totally get it.

Happened to me in a previous role.

The trainee was only on £3000 a year less than me and I was running the business,responsible for staff and customers cash handling etc etc. security and more.

The trainee stood around,was constantly late,and didn't work as part of a team at all.

There was over 20 years difference between me being there and the trainee.

What’s the standard in your industry/ what pay is offered for similar roles when you job search?

ask for a payrise or go to another company that will pay what you feel the job is worth

ever your job isn’t valued or they don’t enough difference between your role & the admin role

Would the apprentices not expect their pay to go up once qualified?

As the OP has explained that she has more responsibility and experience than the apprentice and is senior to him of course it's realistic to expect a higher salary.

I did a degree apprenticeship to retrain as an adult, having moved to a country where my qualifications weren't recognised (my degrees were recognised as degrees but not as vocational qualifications for state accreditation).

It was incredibly hard with 16 hours a week of direct teaching time plus private study, a lot of exams and extensive written work done on top of working and I certainly wouldn't have bothered if I'd been expecting to stay on the same salary or just get a couple of hundred per month extra once I'd finally finished the three full on years and passed all the exams! Passing moved me up four notches on the pay scale.

I wonder whether the fact that the apprentice is male and the OP female is having any impact on the employer having started them on a higher salary than the OP expected and on the OP having been offered and accepted less than she should (and on some posters telling her to put up and shut up).

There's plenty of solid statistical evidence that on a population level women are paid 1/3 less than men for the same work.

Ask for a payrise or leave. Don't be embarrassed about your wage though, if you feel it's not enough it's your employers who should be embarrassed.

You’ve phrased it oddly in terms of being embarrassed. I’m not entirely clear from your posts whether the apprentice would be junior to you once qualified. But it seems like it’s been a bit of a wake up call that you’re being underpaid? In which case, lots of good advice in this thread. Look around at other roles to see how your pay compares, talk to your management about it or look elsewhere!

In light of this info, yes...it feels wrong and embarrassing. I feel for you.

Employees with years of practical experience in a role/industry should absolutely be paid much more than an apprentice who's just fresh in.

The fact some people think otherwise is baffling to me.

With training an apprentice you often put in more than you get out in terms of time/effort invested in them versus their productivity.

I understand. It is not embarrassing, but you feel your pay is not at the level where your experience and contribution is being properly recognised.

The feelings you have currently are why many companies are desperate to keep the pay levels men and women are typically paid a secret!

Could you a) renegotiate b) seek a new role elsewhere? If you do b), you may be able to use that to help with a).

What is embarrassing is when your 16yo gets a job and is already earning more per hour than you are!

It had made me realise how badly early years professionals are treated.

Time to look for something new! Do you have qualifications and experience (a decent length of time in your role?)

You are not clear in why it's embarrassing or what you do but I'd say consider whether you are happy on your wage generally and focus on that. If you think your wage is not high enough then focus on that but PP is right that the apprentice's wave is nothing to do with uou.

I assume she's embarrassed about having been played for a fool essentially. It sounds as though she's being quite significantly under paid for her role and feels taken advantage of and undervalued.

In reality unscrupulous employers will pay as little as they can get away with and that's why they usually insist that employees don't discuss pay. The attitude that other employees pay is nothing to do with colleagues is fostered to keep overall wages down and avoid the employees who are very underpaid for their role finding out.

This disproportionately impacts women because women are less likely to negotiate aggressively for high starting salaries and pay rises.

Lack of pay transparency and banning discussion of wages disadvantages female employees as a general rule.

Negotiate a higher salary or look for a new job and gonin expecting and asking for significantly more than you're earning now OP.

What qualifications have you got

I can understand why you might be cagey with providing more details but a lot depends on your experience and job role.
Some apprenticeships are paid more than other apprenticeships.
For example oil/engineering/space apprentice and maybe even banks is paid more than a hairdressing/beauty therapist apprentice.

Well apprenticeships are paid more in industries in which pay is higher. They should be proportional to the industry average. Given that OP is in the same industry, this point is moot...

Yes I accept that was a stupid point actually.

I wouldn't feel embarrassed though I would feel angry and indignant. Time for a chat with the boss?

Don’t be too embarrassed. I’m a band six in the NHS and I do practically as much as the band 7, possibly even the 8a. That’s why I’m aiming to be a 7 in the next 18 months (might as well have the money 😉) You just have to go for it and know your worth.

Disagree with this entirely. Secret pay structures are one of the mechanisms that perpetuate the gender/race/class pay gap. Poke away, and make a noise about it!

No it's not embarrassing don't even share your salary OP. Does it really matter? You do you.

You’ve phrased it oddly in terms of being embarrassed.

I don’t find it odd. When I was in a job that paid a ridiculously low wage for the skills involved, embarrassment was exactly what I felt. It’s the knowing you’re being taken for a mug. Also in my case, a real sense of powerlessness as the jobs market was terrible at the time. A lot of employers were taking the mickey and good jobs were like gold dust. Thankfully, I did eventually get one and I’m sure op can work this out too.

I agree that embarrassment isn’t constructive and op now needs to use this information to improve her situation.