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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think abolishing private schools would cost the tax payer a lot of money?!

215 replies

bumblybum · 05/12/2022 08:26

I am not against the idea at all but there's a few things I don't understand.

How do the dc currently in private schools fit into schools in areas where all the schools are already full?
Would private schools be open to foreign dc only seeing as a lot of students at the private schools are not from the U.K. and use private schools because their company often pays for their fees or would foreign dc also be forced into state schools?
What about boarding schools for forces parents? Are there enough state boarding schools?

Do grammar schools also need deconstructing as well in order for all education to be 'fair'? I live in a grammar area and you can forget buying a house in one of the school catchment areas unless you're already a lot wealthier. Is that not a similar problem? One school has 2% of pupils eligible for pupil premium for example.

Just wondering how it would work. Do state teachers want this to happen? Many move over to private schools so I suppose if many private schools shut down it would stop some choice in where to work.

Would state schools attempt to reach the standard of facilities that private schools have or would we accept that it is better that all British dc have the 'same' even if it's worse vs some having better facilities simply down to money.
Just Monday morning day dreaming about this really!

OP posts:
FlossMeg · 05/12/2022 08:28

Who is planning to abolish private schools? I heard that Labour was considering removing the right of private schools to claim charitable status (and the tax benefits that go alongside that) but isn’t heard of plans to wholesale abolish schools! 😲

IhearyouClemFandango · 05/12/2022 08:30

No-one is discussing this. Just fairly rightly saying that they shouldn't be able to claim charitable status

WatchoRulo · 05/12/2022 08:31

I agree OP but no-one is suggesting they are abolished.

georgedawes · 05/12/2022 08:32

IhearyouClemFandango · 05/12/2022 08:30

No-one is discussing this. Just fairly rightly saying that they shouldn't be able to claim charitable status

Not even that, just that they should pay vat is Labour's policy.

Pictograph · 05/12/2022 08:32

There's no chance of this happening OP.

Stardewbeam · 05/12/2022 08:33

No one is saying they should be abolished. just that they shouldn’t be able to call themselves charities.

Wouldn’t it be amazing though if we did fund state schools even close to the level of private. If only we valued our children that much.

Threadkillacilla · 05/12/2022 08:33

Hypocritically? Or have you read something?

IhearyouClemFandango · 05/12/2022 08:33

georgedawes · 05/12/2022 08:32

Not even that, just that they should pay vat is Labour's policy.

Show quote history

True

DenbyChina · 05/12/2022 08:33

Maybe if there wasn’t an option to pay for the perception of a superior education, more people would care about the state of state education. Also, funnelling higher taxes for those who can clearly afford it into education would benefit everyone.

Threadkillacilla · 05/12/2022 08:33

Hypothetically*

Tipsyturvychocolatemonster · 05/12/2022 08:36

Didn’t Corbyn have this as part of their manifesto, they were going tp abolish private schools and basically claim them as public propery And run them as state schools?

RoseBucket · 05/12/2022 08:36

In my daughters old prep a lot of the children were military children, partly paid for to assist children stay in one place and not have to keep moving whilst their parent/s were working all around the world.

MintJulia · 05/12/2022 08:36

It would be interesting for someone impartial to do the sums for ...

a) removing charitable status and hence making them pay VAT
b) 10% of private school pupils returning to the state sector
c) private schools charity activities coming to a halt - so no more bursaries, providing swimming pools for state primaries etc.

We've only ever seen the views of lobbyists from one party or the other, none of which can be trusted.

It would be good to have some real information from an accountant.

sevenbyseven · 05/12/2022 08:37

It's not going to happen. But imagine how great it would be if all the money people pay in school fees went into the state sector. (Also not going to happen.)

litlealligator · 05/12/2022 08:37

I think they should be abolished. If all the rich parents paying private school fees actually cared about the state of their local comprehensive instead and donated even half as much to those schools as they are currently paying in fees, it would benefit all children, not just the rich ones.

sunshineandsuddenshowers · 05/12/2022 08:37

Should not be charities. Should pay proper tax and business rates. I also think they should be required to have entrance policies that are independently scrutinised, and to be required to provide as many bursaries as needed w a much lower cut-off than at present - stop subsidising the better off and be genuinely open to those who can’t afford any fees or costs at all. Fees for those who could pay would inevitably rise, but that’s a good thing not a bad one.

PuttingDownRoots · 05/12/2022 08:39

Making private school parents play VAT would lead to many of them closing as parents couldn't afford the fees.

Short term... itvwould be nuts. Shuffling of pupils, teacher redundancies, schools owing bankrupt. But after a few years it would settle down its some schools being even more overcrowded and more "blackholes" and then after that maybe an improvement..

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 05/12/2022 08:39

Tipsyturvychocolatemonster · 05/12/2022 08:36

Didn’t Corbyn have this as part of their manifesto, they were going tp abolish private schools and basically claim them as public propery And run them as state schools?

I’m 99.9% sure not. He just wanted to abolish their charitable status. Which is fine in my book.

malmi · 05/12/2022 08:40

Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to end private schools, I would absorb them into the state sector where the local demand for schooling justified it, or perhaps form partnerships with existing local state schools so they could merge or transfer pupils and close one site over a long period.
The unneeded sites, after all this, would probably be sold to developers.

Hoppinggreen · 05/12/2022 08:41

litlealligator · 05/12/2022 08:37

I think they should be abolished. If all the rich parents paying private school fees actually cared about the state of their local comprehensive instead and donated even half as much to those schools as they are currently paying in fees, it would benefit all children, not just the rich ones.

So in the meantime I sacrifice my childrens education on the altar of political idealism?
No thank you.
I actually do help at a local state school with both my time and money but while our local State Secondary is so awful people who actually work there told me not to send DD if I could avoid it and we have an excellent Private school that we can afford a 5 minute walk away then I would be crazy not to send them there.
The school isn’t a charity though, I don’t believe Private schools should have that status

Alexandernevermind · 05/12/2022 08:42

The policy is going to make Labour unelectable - again, and goodness knows we need a change in government. Education is essential and should not be subject to VAT, the fact that it is luxury education is irrelevant, its still education. Not all private schools are Eton, some are small, SEN friendly with generous scholarships and are a life line for rural communities.

Original poster
bumblybum · 05/12/2022 08:42

Ok maybe I'm a bit daft and wrote abolish but I can't see how many dc will still attend if 20% extra is charged? That means a lot will shut. I'm sure places like Eton will survive but a lot of private schools won't, I'd go so far as to say the majority?

OP posts:
WatchoRulo · 05/12/2022 08:42

PuttingDownRoots · 05/12/2022 08:39

Making private school parents play VAT would lead to many of them closing as parents couldn't afford the fees.

Short term... itvwould be nuts. Shuffling of pupils, teacher redundancies, schools owing bankrupt. But after a few years it would settle down its some schools being even more overcrowded and more "blackholes" and then after that maybe an improvement..

You appear to have done some sums on this - let's see the working out please.

minipie · 05/12/2022 08:44

I agree MintJulia except I suspect it would be a lot more than 10% of children moving to state.

minipie · 05/12/2022 08:45

The no VAT isn’t because private schools are charities. (That has other tax benefits). It’s because provision of certain services, including education, is VAT exempt.

Heathcare is also VAT exempt. Should we start charging VAT on private healthcare? Arguably that is way more inequitable than private education.