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Original poster

Conveyancing laws

40 replies

MadameDe · 03/12/2022 22:26

I'm thinking of starting a petition regarding buying and selling houses. I think the law should be that once an offer is made and accepted, it's legally binding, as in contract law. How many people on here would sign it?

OP posts:
Genevieva · 04/12/2022 00:04

The problem is the people involved, not the law. People can cause headaches in and contract. When we bought our house we looked around carefully, made an offer and stuck to it. We offered the asking price, but we were aware that the house had been on the market for slightly more the year before and a sale had fallen through. We were worried that the seller or his estate agent might try to play us off against another buyer, so we were very clear that the offer was non-negotiable: we had no intention of reducing our offer at the last minute, but equally if the seller tried to bargain us up at a later point then we would walk away. The seller understood the terms of the offer and stuck to his side of the deal. From offer to completion took six weeks.

icebearforpresident · 04/12/2022 00:05

As a Scottish estate agent I 100% concur with the Scottish conveyancing solicitor, this is absolutely NOT how the Scottish system works.

in Scotland you aren’t legally bound to anything until the Missives are concluded, from my understanding of the English system that like the equivalent of exchanging contracts. Usually that would happen a few weeks before settlement, where money changes hands and you get the keys, so you aren’t sitting in an empty house the night before you move not sure if you are actually moving, however post covid the whole system has gone to shit and a simple, chain free, cash purchase which could have been done in 4 weeks back in 2019 can take as many as 10-12 weeks now.

SuperCamp · 04/12/2022 00:17

So essentially OP, you want to bring Exchange forward, before searches, surveys, mortgage valuation, inquiries etc ?

Nope!

An offer is made conditional on survey, searches etc.

Some things could be speeded up, the fixtures and fittings form and the other questionnaire could be made available in a sellers pack. Searches could be in a sellers pack.

In my mind potential buyers would also have to be approved for a mortgage at the point of making an offer.
As they do now. No buyer in todays market accepts an offer unless the EA has established that there is an AIP, funds in the bank or a credible sale in order to be able to complete.

BashfulClam · 04/12/2022 00:50

This is a weird misconception people have about selling in Scotland. Until missives go through either party can pull out. This happened to my friend, she accepted an offer, 2 weeks later the buyer pulled out. The seller get a home report done which is hade available to all interested parties. We had to get bc a 2nd report did as we were on the market for 61 days and the buyers bank needed a report that was less than 60 days to secure the mortgage. our sale once agreed only took 5 weeks although exchange and completion was done on the same day.

BoxOfCats · 04/12/2022 08:18

mynameiscalypso · 03/12/2022 22:29

How would that work with mortgages and surveys and the like? What would happen if you had an offer accepted but the survey revealed something shit? Or would you do the survey prior to making an offer? Which would seem a bit pointless really...

Where I live, you can make an offer that is binding, conditional on the survey results. I bought my house 4 years ago, and the whole process from making an offer to completing and moving in took 3 weeks.

user1487194234 · 04/12/2022 08:20

That is not how it works in Scotland

user1487194234 · 04/12/2022 08:25

In my opinion the Scottish system is no longer better than the English system,in many ways it is worse

Cheesuswithallama · 04/12/2022 08:30

What you have in some other places is a contract about future contract which carries penalties if one side just backs up.
If that was reasonable (eg survey uncovers x and y so you can back off) that could be good.

Agree with pp.it takes unreasonably long time here!

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/12/2022 08:32

Havanananana · 03/12/2022 23:20

This is how it works in much of Europe. Any survey is done (paid for by the seller) before the property is marketed and often an insurance policy is taken out by the seller that guarantees that the property is free from further issues, but the buyer also has to be aware of obvious issues, and so should demand to see receipts for new windows, energy efficiency, wiring and plumbing certificates etc. (all of which is usually in the sellers' pack) before making the offer. If the buyer has to get a mortgage or loan, they need to take this information to the mortgage company or bank before making the offer and the mortgage company will approve or reject the loan based on this information, their own valuation and the buyer's ability to pay. In many countries, banks also act as estate agents.

Basically the "Contract" is a sheet of A4 that says "Person X offers to buy [Property details] from Person Y for an agreed price of €XXX. This offer is valid until [date - e.g. 30 days] with the final completion agreed as [date - e.g 60 days from offer acceptance]." Estate Agents have standard forms for this. If both parties agree and sign, and the buyer usually pays a deposit, then that constitutes a contract. The conveyancing is then just the paperwork that transfers ownership from one owner to the other (which is what the word "conveyancing" means) and is usually done by just one conveyancing solicitor, employed by the buyer, who checks the Land Registry, the Loans and Mortgages Registry and the Survey details etc. Not only is the system very simple, it is very quick and a purchase can be completed in a few weeks.

I’ve bought and sold two houses in France, and this is not the French system. I don’t think it is in Italy, either, as I once thought about buying a flat there, though that was a while ago.

house purchase is a very expensive and complex process, it is really difficult to simplify it. There were good features in the French system ( the agent prepares the contract, the notaire does the searches - and collects the very high stamp duty equivalent) and bad things ( there is no legal assurance on fixtures and fittings and condition of property).

the main problem everywhere seems to be the lack of expedition amongst the legal and financial institutions involved.

Myguessis · 04/12/2022 08:34

Our system is stressful.

You don't know 100% it's going to complete until the actual day! Even exchange doesn't give me peace of mind.

Beneficialchampion2 · 04/12/2022 08:36

I can understand your frustration, having been in both sides of the coin the English system is generally biased towards the buyer. Which is how it should be. A lot of these sales that fall through could be prevented if people were upfront in the first place about their intentions and also about the property they're selling.

The easy way to protect yourself is to use a no sale no fee conveyancer, but naturally these are more expensive.

Fifthtimelucky · 04/12/2022 09:13

No. But I would certainly vote for a system which meant the vendor had to provide an up to date survey, in the same way that they have to provide an EPC.

That would speed things up and presumably reduce the number of accepted offers that don't result in sales.

Mortgage providers would still no doubt want to do their own valuation, but they could do that on the basis of the survey.

When my mother sold a house several years ago, after only living there a short time, she sent her prospective buyer a copy of the survey she had had done when she bought it, annotated with comments about what work she had had done to address the issues raised. I don't know if the buyer subsequently commissioned their own survey, but I'm sure they found it useful.

AWaferThinMint · 04/12/2022 09:32

I would approve of a system where survey, searches, eg etc was produced once you front by the vendor in a pack. The survey being done by licensed / registered surveyors with legal comeback in the vendor if after purchase it's found they've deliberately instructed pertinent information.

Then all those costs are paid once up front and when you offer you offer based on all info. It removes the delay while you wait for searches and survey etc.

Then for the buyer you should only offer if you have means to pay (money in back, offer on table etc) and the expectation should be you evidence that before your offer is out to vendor.

In essence, make everyone be totally up front about their position. Suddenly, boom, you clear up loads of time and energy.

AWaferThinMint · 04/12/2022 09:33

Fifthtimelucky · 04/12/2022 09:13

No. But I would certainly vote for a system which meant the vendor had to provide an up to date survey, in the same way that they have to provide an EPC.

That would speed things up and presumably reduce the number of accepted offers that don't result in sales.

Mortgage providers would still no doubt want to do their own valuation, but they could do that on the basis of the survey.

When my mother sold a house several years ago, after only living there a short time, she sent her prospective buyer a copy of the survey she had had done when she bought it, annotated with comments about what work she had had done to address the issues raised. I don't know if the buyer subsequently commissioned their own survey, but I'm sure they found it useful.

We did that when we last sold. Sent copy of the old survey and proof of works from our builder of everything we fixed. I know it went down well as I got a thank you from our buyer.

CatJumperTwat · 04/12/2022 12:37

user1487194234 · 04/12/2022 08:25

In my opinion the Scottish system is no longer better than the English system,in many ways it is worse

How?

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