Are some people really heavy or am I kidding myself?

[Ellessdee]

I know I'm a bit overweight. I'm a solid size 12. I weighed myself and did my BMI out of curiosity and it's telling me I'm obese. Is BMI wildly inaccurate or am I in denial re my weight? I used to weight train and do have quite a bit of muscle but also a layer of fat on top! Anyway, trying to pose weight, just wondering if I should be worried!

*there is 'no' hard and fast rule

I disagree with this. I think people should rely on hard numbers from scales, tapes and calculators.

I see nothing wrong when I look in the mirror. When I see photos of myself, I look twice the width I think I am.

BMI isn't that accurate but it can be a good indicator. Your height is going to affect things as well. For example, I'm 5ft 6 and a size 12 and I'm not overweight by BMI standards. My friend is only 4ft 11 and a size 12 at the moment. She is classed as overweight on BMI calculator and she does feel that she needs to lose a bit of weight and should be ok at a size 10.

Apologies, I note your graph did actually reference sprinters.

It's really common at the moment for people to take challenges of BMI not being helpful for genuine outliers (eg people who are very muscly and train a lot) and use it to argue that overweight people aren't overweight. A lot of people are overweight but because so many people are overweight our perception of what overweight is has shifted.

This sums it up really. It's natural to be in denial that we're 'not that fat' as that means admitting we should make some changes for our health, plus when you walk down the street most people are carrying a bit more than they should, especially after Covid, so we feel 'normal'.

A friend of mine was just over 20st and lost about 3.5st. All of his friends said he looked great, but annoyingly kept using the word 'skinny'. In his head, that implied he was underweight or he should be heavier. At 5"11 17st isn't skinny by any measure, but that was the perception in his circle, and eventually he put the weight back on.

I'm frequently called 'tiny', skinny and it's like no, I'm the normal one?! never say that obviously I worked hard to lose weight and imo will never be skinny. I'm 5"6 and 9st.

I find it interesting when 'skinny' is thrown around when I'd need to drop over a stone to be underweight, yet people deny when BMI say they're overweight/obese.

And it seems like once people realised BMI doesn't work for rugby players and body builders, suddenly that warped into that applies to the general public and any individual who gets a shock can just dismiss it as a measuring tool. No. The whole point of BMI is that it's designed for the population as a whole, and by nature the majority of us fit within its limits. When faced with the reality, most of us like to kid ourselves we're special or 'BMI is a load of rubbish/doesn't apply to me because xyz' but most of the time we're just in denial.

I think part of the issue, as we've seen on this thread, is that a lot of people don't realise how relatively small "obesity" is...there's a perception that it's the same as morbid obesity, really enormous, and it isn't. Depending on how you carry it, you might not even look "fat" by some people's standards (it's somewhat subjective). But statistically, it does put you at increased health risks.

Yes, the All Blacks etc are exceptions but most of us know if we're that muscular or not...

and even 'all muscle' heavy sportspeople (rugby, weightlifting, boxing) are at increased risk of cardiovascular disease just due to the extra body mass.

If the BMI calculator tells you you are OW or obese, then with very few exceptions (extremely muscular people) you are; with the attendant heightened health risks. The severity of the health risk will be reduced if you carry your weight in places other than your middle, and maintain a waist size less than half your height and not exceeding 31.5".
This is not the same as how fat or slim you may look, as that can be subjective, and relative to those around you. Your personal preference for how you like to look, the clothes you wear, the shape of your body, the current asthetic, all contribute to whether you see yourself and are seen by others to be slim or fat.
So, for me, BMI as an indicator of health is useful. As a measure of how you look in relation to the subjective terms of fat and slim, often irrelevant.

You're talkimg about clothes sizes, which are completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what size you wear, it matters what you weigh.
If you're 5ft 6, you need to know your weight to know if you are overweight. If your friend is classed as overweight, its because she is overweight.
Forget about dress sizes!

But unless you're a bodybuilder or rugby player it's usually a pretty good place to start.

It is designed for the WHITE population as a whole. But I guess that doesn't interest you does it

@SleeplessInEngland

But unless you're a bodybuilder or rugby player it's usually a pretty good place to start
^
And white^

I agree, but the OP was talking about clothes sizes in relation to her BMI. She was saying that she doesn't see a size 12 as overweight. I was just explaining that it wouldn't be if you're taller, but if you're shorter then it's very possible for someone to be overweight at a size 12. My friend and I had this conversation the other week and my friend was saying that we're both the same size but I look slimmer than her. I explained that yes, I will do because I'm 8 inches taller.

Well this probably tells you what you need to know; I'm also 5'9, size 14 at the bottom and 14/12 at the top. Def could do with losing a few lb and not been able to do any exercise for 6 months due to health issues. So I'm squishy rather than muscly.

But BMI is fine - not overweight (although at the top end of normal) - I forget exactly what it was when I looked but <25.

So we're both the same height, you sound much fitter and healthier than me, and more toned, yet you're overweight and I'm not.....

OP is 5 9 and at least 14.5 stone, if she's squeezing herself into a size 12, it's not a pretty sight.

Once upon a time I totally would have thought this (re the surprise) but if there is a not so distant history of weight training then there could well be some muscle density in there that means the number on the scale is higher than it is for another person who might have the same measurements but is carrying a higher proportion of fat. I am a living example of this - I am 5’6” and a size 6-8 but I weigh 69-70kg (roughly 11 stone) which puts me in the overweight BMI category. I am really athletic though (ie I do 15-17 hours of pretty intense hybrid exercise each week) and that’s clear from my build, so I’m comfortable with the number on the scale (my GP isn’t remotely concerned about it either). Interestingly, my PT, who is an incredible force of an athlete with very little body fat, is “obese” on the BMI scale!

OP, the suggestion to have regard to your waist to height ratio as an indicator of health is a really good shout! BMI works at a basic level, but it isn’t an appropriate tool
for benchmarking everyone.

Good luck reaching your objectives, whatever they may be! You’ve 100% got this! 💐💪

How possibly can you confidently surmise that OP is “squeezing herself” into size 12 clothing based on the info provided? Fair enough if OP says that about herself but you can’t draw that conclusion based alone on the vital stats provided here unless you have seen OP yourself or have access to info about OP’s body comp.

Your comment isn’t really very kind, nor is it necessary.

@pocketvenuss not sure why you're attacking me but cool. If you use the NHS website it makes allowances for different ethnicities, although at base level I agree there hasn't been enough research on those ethnicities in the first place.

Using it as a blunt tool or rule of thumb is still helpful I think. If you're not a body builder, and it says you're obese, it's likely you're an unhealthy weight. I don't think anyone has suggested people should stick to it religiously but denial is a huge issue.

Because by her own words she is 5 9 and over 14.5 stone, even the most generous size 12's are not going to fit on that body size.
Simple logic.

My main point is simply that weight is not a reliable indicator of size and, unless OP uses certain words to describe herself in a particular way, it is not for you to draw unreliable conclusions and present them alongside disparaging and unhelpful (and potentially damaging) commentary. OP is welcome to correct me if I have misunderstood but I do not interpret OP’s starting post as an invitation for that.

Look at body fat percentage if you want a decent number to work with.

If you use the NHS website it makes allowances for different ethnicities, although at base level I agree there hasn't been enough research on those ethnicities in the first place.

The NHS website is trying to be all things to all people. If you travel to countries with different predominant ethnicity proportions the BMI ranges will be a shock for the average Briton.

In Singapore, for example, it’s a lot easier to be obese…

www.healthhub.sg/programmes/93/bmi-calculator

BMI is fairly accurate for most of the people. It doesn't work well for certain athletes and definitely not bodybuilders.
I'm size 12 and 5'10''. In the overweight category if you look at BMI and yes, I have fat I shouldn't really have

Weight plus height is a good indicator of size, hence why BMI does in fact work.

As for OP's invitation, she asked was she kidding herself...she is. Also, that's not how AIBU works. You don't get only the answers you want.

I think a lot of us who grew up in the 80s/90s still have in our heads that sizes 8/10/12 are ‘small’ sizes - because they were in the olden days! But now a 12 is definitely not that small.
Im pretty much exactly the same size and weight I was at 20 (& I’m now almost 50) and have gone from wearing a size 12 to an 8/extra small - there is nothing extra small about me. Back in the 90s I always felt quite hefty (I’m 5’10, just over 10 stone) but now I am definitely thinner than most people I know.
everyone has got fatter in the UK basically. And clothes have got massive. Look at old tv programmes (when they show the old top of the pops, everyone was so thin!) Most people these days would look massive if we were transported back to 1985.