Identity - What is my Class / Culture / background etc

[Henrietta2000]

Hi all,

I have a question and would like your thoughts on this (I'm also aware that these types of questions tend to really annoy some folk)! But here goes.

I've had quite a few identity crises when I was very young, my siblings and I had been left with a children's agency at birth fostered/ adopted etc and I went back into care and no longer have contact with my older sibling who was adopted by another family when I was very young and then they subsequently left the U.K. 😓.

I therefore lived in family environments that were so different to one another. I always get a bit nervous and self-conscious when people ask questions about my childhood / upbringing or call me names like a coconut (I'm kenyan, and it's usually other black people) and so feel I need to answer with what they want me to say (which I never really know).

But basically I was wondering if you were me what would you say your upbringing was or is it a weird thing to answer if perhaps you never lived with your actual family and then what do you say as an answer? (Might seem like a daft question but genuinely curious).

I'm currently at uni and as you would know there's a huge thing currently with identity politics on campus and debates can get very fiery and accusatory. And it seems some of my answers were not well received by some others.

I essentially based a lot of the "identity / class / culture" labels with a mixture of the families I had grown up in but that was apparently wrong and I was being challenged about it by other black students so now I'm a really confused about what I'm supposed to say my upbringing was.

I essentially said my upbringing culturally was mainly Chinese and English and in terms of class I spent 14 years out of the 18 years in two middle class homes and therefore said my upbringing was middle class. I'd spent 10 years in a Chinese British middle class home and then 4 in a white English middle class home and then a year in a working class White English home and then 3 years in a working class black Caribbean home. And that in terms of identity I feel a little bit confused about that but that otherwise I'm essentially British. My answers really annoyed some of the black students because they were the wrong answers about my upbringing and background. I said I don't really relate to my parents as I don't know them and never spent time with them and also in terms of class my parents are from two different classes so that would be hard to choose as my bio father is working class and bio mother who lives in Kenya is middle class / privately educated from info I have about my mum

One of the arguments put forward was that I'm ethnically black and genetically not related to the families I lived with during my childhood so those cultures can't be mine and that being fostered & adopted is a working class identity so I cannot say I had a middle class upbringing.

Sorry to ask this questions as I know it's annoying but would like your thoughts on this as I don't really have family members to ask this to otherwise I would have asked them instead and so though to ask on mumsnet 🫣.

But am I wrong and what should I say? I know it's not a big deal but it seems it a big deal to the few other black students at my uni. If you were asked the questions about culture, identity, class and upbringing etc and you were me what would you say?

Thank you! X Sorry if it's too long too!

I would say what you said. They are being ridiculous to be annoyed not everyone fits in a box why don't you ask them what they think your identity is and what gives them the right to know anyway, after telling them your background it is really none of their business and you are who you are you can identify with all sorts. Or is this a question related to the latest scandal at the Palace? Will they treat you differently if you are in a higher or lower perceived class? Why on earth do they think Foster care is working class? People from all walks of life end up in Foster care for all sorts of reasons THEY are misinformed and judgemental and have lots of growing up and living to do to realise all this.

You could try just raising an eyebrow and saying "well I do apologise if my lived experience doesn't slot neatly into your pigeonholed world view, but that seems like your problem not mine".
It's not anyone else's business where/how/by who you were raised - don't feel like you somehow have any obligation to share with random nosy people.
If they persist walk away, or ask loudly if they make a habit of harassing people who refuse to tell them private and personal information.

Who are they to tell you what your class and culture is? Surely no one can know that better than you

To me your answer makes perfect sense. Also, you don't owe anyone an answer. You don't need to figure out what they want to hear. It's not your problem. If these are your friends I might try to make some new friends if possible as they don't sound very accepting or open minded.

OP, this is really, really hard. You are you, and that is a mix of all those influences, you can draw on all of them to define your own identity. far more difficult than having one ready made. It can be a strength or a weakness; develop your interests and skills, if you're lucky that will naturally take you on a path to exploring cultural roots but don't let others define you when your cultural boundaries might be limitless - best of luck, this is really a problem of others, not you OP.

That is very interesting indeed, thank you for posting it. It has made me think.

I am adopted but am white, born in London. My parents who adopted me were working class, both Londoners. They told me nothing about my birth parents but it was revealed to me when I was about sixteen that my birth mother came from an upper middle class family who lived 'in the country'. Her father, a businessman, had some standing in the community. It was considered such a scandal/disgrace for her to have an illegitimate child that my grandmother brought her to London to stay with friends until after my birth (grandmother stayed with her), when she returned home as if nothing had happened. Indeed it was never mentioned again. I know this because I met biological mother when I was 37 and she filled in the details. My bio father was in the RAF, her first love; he did actually ask her to marry him when he found out she was pregnant but by then she knew that wouldn't work and refused him.

I always knew I was very 'different', and not just because of my genes, to my adoptive family.

Am I middle class or working class? I don't know. I have a working class background that's for sure.

It doesn't matter now. People are people regardless of their class or ethnicity and I have always treated everyone the same but I suppose I did go on to lead a more 'middle class' life, or so sociologists would say. It just panned out that way as it has for my grown up only child who doesn't give a fig about class thankfully and mixes naturally with all.

It's far more complicated for you because you did not have a settled life with one family, which is unfortunate, and your bio parents came from different countries and cultures. However you are doing well.

It might help you to meet your sister - and she might want to meet you! Have you considered that, Henrietta? It could give you a better sense of your own heritage and identity.

I hope I haven't been insensitive, I am thinking and writing as I think and of course I don't know what it is like to be you.

I'm sorry you are getting some stick from fellow students but they also don't understand what it is like to be you. In time (hopefully), they will be more empathetic.

Just be yourself. You are obviously intelligent and will most likely have a fulfilling career, and more, in the future. I wish you well - wish I knew you in real life :).

Tell them that you identify as a BadAss. And that you find these sorts of discussions tedious, quite frankly.

OP I think these other students are really the ones with a problem mint you!

I would perhaps try not to engage with these interrogations that you are facing. Or say something very vague about your childhood like “mixed” or “I’d prefer not to discuss it” or “I don’t discuss it”.

Above all, don’t let other people dictate what you should say/think. If they don’t what you've said don’t let them chastise you for it. They sound like
they need to devote more time to their degrees than policing what you say.

Oops NOT you obvs.

being fostered & adopted is a working class identity so I cannot say I had a middle class upbringing nonsense. If you were raised in middle class homes by middle class adults and exposed to middle class experiences and culture, your not working class must because you're adopted.
They're basically saying "oh the middle and upper classes would never do something so common as to give up or lose their child"

In your shoes is say British Middle Class.

I empathize with you situation greatly. I was in white community too (I went to a white school and my parents did little to push back against) but I still claimed my Jamaicaness blackness whatever you wanna call it I love my culture and act like a black woman - always will. I am proud to be black and love being a Jamaican and I am hardworking because of my working class roots and I am proud of that too. But I have white Asian black you name it in my social circle.

OP I’m not surprised at your confusion and you were seriously seriously let down and that’s that it’s why black kids should now be raised in black culture to avoid this. The way black kids are treated in fostering and adoption in this country is unacceptable in the slightest what do they expect? Why don’t you connect to the Jamaican family? Did you not feel that it was your culture? We’re you happy to finally live with black culture and people or not? Because I would start there hang out with more black students and learn their/your culture and form your identity - it will come. Trust me their just trying to help. Wish you the best OP.

I think in an ideal world it really should not matter where you come from therefore it should not matter if white kids are placed with black families and vice versa you should embrace all cultures and not feel you have to forcibly hang on to one. If you are mixed race and Jamaican should you hang on only to your Jamaican and black roots or fully embrace both/all? Why should you have to choose one over the other?

It’s not up to other people to tell you what your identity is. Class is a mostly useless way to view someone anyway.

Frenulumetta I am guessing you are white? But it matters if you are black. You have to teach children how to deal with racism and how to care for their hair and to be proud so yes I would say it’s important for children of black heritage to be raised black not white not Chinese not Indian. that does not make sense and does not help black people. A white person or Chinese or Indian persons probably understand very little about being black so how can it be appropriate for a black child? It’s common sense.

So should white women not raise mixed race children? They wouldn’t know those things either.

MyDogsANightmare, preferably not. Do white women have Afro hair or black heritage? So it wouldn’t be right for a child of black heritage why would a white woman know how to care for a child of black heritage? Can you braid, relax hair, do single plaits with extensions comb it look after black skin, diet, culture, clothing, language etc That’s the central issue black children deserve to be raised in their culture like white children do I’ve never heard a white person have the issues OP has ever but I know it’s common with black adopted kids. Surely that can’t be right?

@IEatAlotOfFood but lots of white women give birth to mixed race children. Are you seriously saying that they should not look after the children they gave birth to?!!

If i was asked i would say ' why? Why do you want to know?'
How fucking dare they question your self assessment if your identity???
I am ENRAGED on your behalf!

So you are against mixed marriages and relationships?

Why would the op feel that the Jamaican culture was hers?
She is Kenyan.

The other students are being very young and ingnorant and offensive by quizzing you like this and arguing with you and using offensive terms like 'coconut'. You are unique and not some identity.

TBH if I was you I'd shut down any discussion about your background with 'I was separated from my siblings, brought up in care, lived in multiple households and find that a difficult question to answer because of my experiences which I'd rather not talk about thank you'.

@Lozzybear

it depends on the question I’m very aware that white women give birth to mixed race children. But the poster asked should they? In my assessment as a black mother that understands what it takes to raise a child of black heritage I would say preferably not. Do white women have mixed raised children? - yes. That’s a different question. It’s my opinion and I’m thinking about what’s optimal for a child’s development. And how would the child fit in to black culture if they’re not raised in it it seems clear from OP that she was called a coconut that proves my point. How was she helped?

@IEatAlotOfFood can the black fathers and grandparents of mixed race children not help them with the black culture part of their heritage since you think their white mothers can't.

So her whole upbringing was terrible just because she got called a coconut. Seems to me the rude students who called her names are the ones that were brought up poorly.
Ideally no child should be in care but I wouldn’t want any child to miss out on love because of misguided well meaning policies of matching children to racially appropriate parents.

@Henrietta2000 it very much sounds like those students are pretty insecure in their own identities. Their behaviour sounds more like bullying too.

Not to mention racist vis a vis the "coconut" slur too.

Culture isn't something present within the genes. It's essentially the outward expression of the influences that shaped your experiences and, therefore, your inner life.

No-one can tell you what your identity is. only you can do that because only you are YOU!

You don't have to base your identity on any one thing, including skin colour. There is no such thing as a white, black or whatever Culture. There are very different variations of these cultures. Consider how different white British culture is from white US and Australian culture. Ditto the many black cultures in the African continent as compared to those in the US and the Caribbean. Ditto the many cultures within Asia and their Diaspora in the US and Europe.

Only you can find yourself. Good luck!