To think that school isolation shouldn't be used for uniform errors.

[LondonElle]

Hi all my son has been given isolation on two
Separate occasions for not having the correct school shoes at his secondary school ( the first time was because he had sprained his ankle and due to swelling had to wear trainers) the second time because his shoes had broken, I ordered a pair they didn't fit so ordered another pair which took a few days to arrive) both times he had a note and the ankle injury happened in school.
Both times he was given a full day of isolation, this is standard practise at his school.
To me personally this is excessive, both times he was placed in isolation with pupils who had physically attacked others.
I fully accept and expect punishments if deserved but this doesn't sit right with me?
Is it standard practise in other secondary schools?

YANBU - I do think there is a place for isolations with DISRUPTIVE behaviour but it really seems some schools go on little power trips over this punishment.

School uniforms for high school children are ridiculously expensive particularly academies where they have logos even on p.e shorts and socks.
It's unfair to punish children for this, particularly if the parents can't afford it or the child has misplaced it and the parents are not given enough time to replace it.

My daughters school is strict. I asked her what'd happen. She said they would quiz you on it jut if you HD a note they wouldn't put you in isolation. Without a note, you'd definitely be put in isolation.

The school sounds ridiculous. Both times you provided a note explaining. In the same situation, I would be making a complaint.

Not at ours. Ds has, on occasion, needed to wear trainers due to a foot injury and I communicated with the school and they were fine about it.

Shamelessly bumping this thread

Injury... school should have a way if dealing with this.

Personally I think there should be a grace period for replacing lost/broken items as well.

For an injury that's excessive its not like you did it on purpose you literally couldn't get the shoes on! If it happens again inform them your child will be off sick unless reasonable adjustments are made (like wearing trainers in school time)

Broken shoes? Did you really need to order them in? I think most places have late night opening shops if you have a car and you can get there that is

Yeah in hindsight I could have gone to the shops but I have four children and no cash at the time so used next as I have an account and they deliver next day.

As someone who (unwillingly) works in a school isolation room, this is frequent. Negative points, full days out of the classroom where teachers don't set work and then the child is further berated for getting behind.

Our school does allow all black trainers as footwear but the kids do seem to continue to push that boundary. I just think don't think isolation fits the "crime", buts alternatively, my suggestions to improve the system keep getting ignored and knocked back.

YANBU. At my school he would have gone to isolation but would have quickly been back out with a uniform pass on both occasions.

I would have been livid about isolation for essentially having a sprained ankle, and really kicked up a fuss. That's unacceptable.

I would be really unhappy with a school like this, it is so pointless.

That's my issue, and also sometimes parents can't afford new shoes straight away so their children are being punished for being at a disadvantage.

I should add, we also issue uniform passes and in the case of your son (dependent on the head of year) would have got a pass but probably been frequently questioned by SLT round school.

What sort of foot injuries mean one has to wear trainers, though? Not meaning that contentiously, just wondering.

Mine were picked up on uniform violations twice in their secondary years. Nothing was done. So not the same everywhere. Ours had demerit cards that just got a point on. 5 demerits in a month and your parents got called and you were put into isolation.

Thought it was a good system as it forgave a small lapse every now and then. It also had a section on the report card (demerit listing)... mine were mortified enough the first time that came up to put a bit of effort in.

Also the black shoe/black trainer needs to change. there are no high street shoe shops left in my town, Clark's has gone. There are just very cheap 'shoezone' places or supermarket shoes and they are cheap and very low quality. I've just started sending my boy in dark grey walking shoes, £22 but very hard wearing, so far he's got away with it. They need to broaden the uniform criteria so we can buy better quality, but still low cost, shoes and clothes for our kids. The supermarkets trousers are too thin as well.

Yanbu

Parents need time to replace things. Time to be paid. You can't have one online supplier or one shop available during the same open hours everyone's at work and expect parents to be able to instantly replace stuff.

I'm.in awe if the people on MN who can prime a pair of shoes and everything is OK.. I have 2 kids with high insteps it takes ages to find pairs that don't slip etc. In fact last time I came away empty handed fir dd1..I had to buy a cheap pair of ankle boots to tide us over. They arent allowed boots but they were the only thing I could get. They have fallen apart now amd dd is wearing trainers. If they want to take her and spend 2 hours in clinks they are welcome.. otherwise they will have to wait because there's nowhere decent in my local shops to get shoes and dd1 works Saturdays and I work Sundays so I cant get anywhere with her right now.

Witg the cost of living schools can fuck off with their requirements tbh. If they want cooperation with uniform.perhaps don't have so many impossible uniforms

Between 2 dds I have ti put up with- 28 pound skirts. 18.50 pound skirts. Grey trousers which I have struggled to source dd2 is about to grow out the 1 pair out of multiple that fitted. Senior girl grey trousers ( despite assistance from.MN i tried the suggestions) are virtually impossible. Most do not fit well at all. Complaints about socks on show ( sorry my dd1 was skinny and trousers that fitted round the waist were too short), high insteps and poor post covid stocks. Jobs that make svhedukomg trips to shoe shops and uniform shops difficult.

If you want compliance then make sure your uniform is next click akd collect compatible or something. Or fuck off.

That assumes you have transport, someone to watch the DC and the money on hand to pay immediately (online orders often offer credit). It also assume your children have feet which fit into the common stocked shapes and sizes without breaking the bank.

Its ridiculous that uniform image is prioritised over a child's education rather than allow a day or so to replace a broken item. I'd be interested to know how this is reflected in the child's school records. I'd also be questioning the school's priorities.

@Whatwouldscullydo Yes to all this. I had tall kids with long narrow feet and dread to think how much I spent on uniform in that time.

I was lucky that mine went through school before the fashion for zero tolerance for uniform infringements became a replacement for actual behaviour management and policies.

Fascinating how most of Europe, including several countries who routinely outperform us, manage to educate their children without uniforms.

If your foot is swollen then a softer shoe like a trainer can be the only comfortable option. I'd say switching shoes for a while is fairly common for foot injuries.

OP the school sounds like they are completely lacking in common sense.

Isolation is not a good form of punishment in my opinion and really shouldn't be handed out in situations such as you've described.

Did you challenge the school and explain the situation yourself. For the injury situation I'd be asking if he should be kept off and marked as absent as he is unable to wear normal shoes. Most school get even more worked up about attendance figures due to Ofsted.

Fascinating how most of Europe, including several countries who routinely outperform us, manage to educate their children without uniforms

Post covid many kids have been going to school in their pe kits on pe days. So they can learn just fine 2 days a week in trainers but not the other 3? How does that work.

We should be encouraging kids to be wearing stuff thats comfortable amd practical so they can walk to school. Dd walks a mile and a half to school and its just not comfortable to do that in what shoes are deemed acceptable. Schools shoes are the biggest con going. Dd2 has trashed hers less than a term in. Any other product and you'd not buy again but with unifirm u are forced to buy the inferior useless poor quality overpriced shit time amd time again. Then when the inevitable happens amd it looks like shit u have to replace. I feel we are in one big game of chicken.

Yanbu.

DD's school shoes broke earlier this year. Fortunately she 'only' got a demerit and was issued with a note by her HoY to avoid further punishment whilst we sourced replacement ones.

And if you have a child with sensory needs, it isn't a case of just grabbing a pair from the nearest supermarket. It can take a while to find a pair with the right feel.

Using isolation to punish a child for not being able to wear the correct uniform for a valid, short term reason is wrong on so many levels.

I think the zealousness over uniform at some schools in part comes from certain academy trusts, and in part because it is one of the few things that can be not open to discretion.

We can all think of the parents who moan and complain when their child is pulled up on some behaviour or rule who think that somehow they should be exempt and it not apply to them. They are people who contribute to such a climate.

I think it sounds excessive to have them in isolation when there is an explanation such as the ankle injury, however where there is refusal to follow a rule then there does have to be a follow up.

Isolation is used because if you have lots of students around the building in trainers or whatever, then the students get the message that they can wear what they want. Why should they wear school shoes when half the class is in trainers and nothing happens?

I know a lot of parents think that uniforms are petty and hate the pedantic rules, but would they really not be put off a school where the children all came out wearing all black tracksuits and those bumscrunch leggings, which is what most of the teenagers at my school wore on our last non uniform day?