AIBU NOT to force our DD to stay over night at her dads house?

[Imjustdone]

Me and my DDs (11) dad have been split for over 7 years now. DD used to stay at his house every Friday night till around 3pm Saturdays.. then once a month a Saturday too. During covid the Saturday dropped as she didn't want to stay 2 nights.

Since covid and a spell of norovirus in April her anxiety levels have gone through the roof so in July I put a temporary stop to over nights completely as she hated them and the build up during the week was getting too much for both me and DD.

DD is currently having counselling once a week to help her anxiety but since her DF has had a CMS review and her not staying is no longer shared care and his payments have increased he is now insisting we go back to the routine we previously had and forcing overnights and even holidays.

Now I have always supported her relationship with her dad, he lives 5 minutes around the corner. Never stopped him having her any extra time he has requested but I dont support forcing her to stay the night if she doesn't want to. I have compromised and said I will tell her she has to stay every other Friday but dealing with it emotional breakdowns and anxiety this causes every week. It is not fair on her or myself.

It's also important to say she won't sleep anywhere else either. Not even her best friends.

So AIBU to tell him I'm not supporting forcing her to stay?

I don't get why everyone routes to the finances. OP has already said it's NOT about the money. She needs suggestions on how to improve the relationship between DD and ExH 🙄

YANBU

Forcing her is just going to make things worse and it needs to just re-happen naturally.

I do think it’s unfair that he’s having to pay extra though as it’s not his fault.

I would encourage her to stay the night as I think the more she does it the easier it’ll get, but definitely don’t force it.

Has she started her period of anything that could be giving her extra anxiety?

Better yet, ask the counsellors how to improve the relationship, not tear it down more. Honestly Mumsnet is full of it 😣

So she should be forced, to the detriment of her mental health?

Anyone get any ideas how the op can get an arrogant and critical ex to be loving and nurturing to their DD? Every time she makes suggestions he does the opposite.

At what point should the op put protecting her DD above a relationship that is damaging her?

Critical parenting is so damaging, it's emotional abuse the affects last a lifetime even with therapy.

Poor girl. Aren't these arrangements meant to be about what's best for the child's welfare, not what parents want?

People saying he's her dad and has a right to a relationship with her - why should that trump her wish not to stay with him? OP says her daughter isn't even bothered about seeing him at all.

@FfayeN you have hit the nail on the head this is exactly it. He doesn't know how to converse with her. He still talks and treats her like she's 7 and doesn't accept she's growing up.

He does have a partner and she has a son a year or so older then DD. Our DD doesn't really like her but a whole other story. She's not there most of the time DD visits.

I fully support time with her dad, I dont believe he is doing anything to intentional hurt her but and loves her very much. His love is just misplaced and it doesn't matter what I say he can't place it correctly to make her feel more comfortable around him.

DD is a people pleaser, she does want to make everyone happy but this then comes out at home with me and I'm left picking up the pieces and dealing with the fallout.

It’s not about the money FOR HER. Why are you on a crusade for this man? Did you read what he said to his daughter about the iPad? Or the fact he refuses to see her in the week?

@Imjustdone is there a way you could find support (not Mumsnet) or talk to his new partner to see if there's a way to make her room there more her own even? A safe space? Ask DD what would make her more comfortable there?
A few other PPs seem to think I mean force her to stay. I don't, but if the two of you were together he would have the chance to build a relationship, the fact you're separated shouldn't mean he then gets left behind. Especially as he WANTS to be a supportive father with an active part, he just doesn't know how 🤷🏼‍♀️.
I think giving DD a way to speak openly with him, make suggestions on how she'd like to spend her time there may be a way forward. But that's just my 2p as a Stepmum xx

@Naunet I'm not on a crusade for this man, I'm on the side is supporting dads that want to be a part of their kids lives, despite the fact they may not be pros at it! People seem to forget parents disagree even when they're together and don't get everything right, when you're parenting seperately that doesn't change, all parents are winging it and he's clearly just not great at dealing with DD. Doesn't mean she needs 'protecting' from him.

It's really not about finances I don't care for the additional money. But 100 extra on his wage is nothing really he just hates giving me it full stop. (He sees it as paying for my "lifestyle").

He is just that type of person. Materialistic, judgemental and arrogant. Complete opposite to our DD me and how we live. I have no control over what he says and he will always be that way.

If it's not about finances to you then let him pay as if he was having her one night a week but agree that he will instead have her in the day time instead for the next few months at least until such a time as she's feeling happier about staying over. I'd encourage her to talk to him about her anxiety and also work with her yourself on it if she isn't happy staying anywhere.

From what the OP is saying, it sounds like he has no idea that an 11 year old girl these days, is no longer a child, but a young woman in the making, and if she's started puberty, that is likely to only make her even more anxious about being with a man who clearly doesn't see her for what she is. I think if I were in your shoes OP, I certainly wouldn't make her go and stay over night, but I would try to explain to him, possibly in an email or even old fashioned snail mail, what I've just said, ie, your daughter is no longer a cute little girl, she's about to hit puberty (or has already), and he need to realise that she may find this embarrassing, so perhaps doesn't want to be there overnight in case she starts her period and is embarrassed to ask him for help. I suggest the letter/email, as that way he actually has to read it, without interrupting, which I bet is what he does if you try to talk to him, and he doesn't like hearing what you have to say. Just my own thoughts, but I hope it might help.

It's not about finances for you, but it is for him, therefore by saying that you are ok with being paid maintenance on the basis of 6 nights per week you take away some of the pressure he puts on her to stay. So you can take the approach that if she wants to stay she can, but if on that night she doesn't want to then he isn't saying 'you must stay because otherwise your mother will demand more of my money'. You can have the arrangement that ideally she is there Friday evening overnight to Saturday evening, but if she stays there until 9pm and then sleeps at yours she can still go back Sat am and spend the day with him.

He hasn't mentioned finances to me I only got the letter advising the uplift on Wednesday. He obviously got it earlier.

This was my message to him when he said we should be forcing contact.. im trying to the fair!

DDs emotional well being is my top priority and forcing overnights given her anxiety around this is absolutely not the answer here.

You really need to work on your relationship with her and make her feel comfortable staying. She has enough to deal with settling into school, doing her homework and general growing up emotions without the added pressure and anxiety around forcing this issue. I feel at this moment in time it will be determental to not only her but your relationship with her.

She feels angry with you and I don't know exactly why and she can't verbalise it to offer an explanation. Forcing this upon her with make her more angry and could push her further away from you.

I do absolutely want to work on building the nights back into her routine again. I think we should start with every other Friday and build on it from there and see how she gets on. She has requested that xx not be there overnight. I do feel you need to make more effort where you can and work allows during the week. Maybe inviting her around for dinner. Happy to drop off and pick pick to facilitate this. This would be a good opportunity to maybe have DD cook dinner with X (DF GF) to help build their relationship too. I think she would enjoy that.

She's having counselling outside school at the moment working on strategies to deal with her anxiety and emotions. I am not present in these sessions I sit outside. If you have health insurnace cover through work could you look into doing further sessions through this and maybe doing some together?

I fully support getting back into a routine and having some nights back myself but forcing it week in week out is really not the way to go for any of us.

His response to that will be telling.

It's so sad he can't put DD first

I didnt get a response.. in fact he didn't even read it properly as I sent her the next week preparing her for a sleepover and he said he was confused and that he thought i wasn't supporting sleepovers!

She did stay the night.. X did stay the night even though I told him DD has asked for her not to..

I just feel like I'm fighting a losing battled so I have to fight for our DDs feelings

But the note about the maintenance going up was presumably only sent to both of you because you informed the CMS that she was no longer staying with him one night a week wasn't it? It does seem a bit unhelpful to have brought the finance arrangements into things when you're still at the point of trying to work with DD to support her re-establishing some regular oversights. You might take the pressure off her a bit if you inform them that he does have her one night a week, knowing that that's the plan and that you're just varying that to be daytime contact on a temporary basis until she's feeling more comfortable with the overnights. And only tell CMS that she doesn't stay overnight if or when you've completely given up on that happening.

If he’s emotionally abusive and your DD doesn’t like going, I wouldn’t force her to go, if she decides she doesn’t want to see her dad at all I’d be supporting her in that. I suffered from my dads emotional abuse and later in life I made the decision to go no contact. Best thing I’ve ever done, I don’t have as much anxiety as I did when I was seeing my dad.

@Fireyflies but that's lying.

I commented to him after setting up payment through cms 2 years ago as he was being abusive to me that hes falsely declaring his girlfriend and her son live with him so to reduce his payment and that he's lying (ive not reported that). I'm not not going to lie myself.

If he wants to have an adult conversation with me and ask to make a payment plan between us I'd have absolutely no problem reducing what he pays me now without the uplift BUT he's not he's throwing a strip about it. I dont make the figures it's CMS. If he wasn't being abusive he'd still be paying half of what he does now!

The fact that he didn't read your email(?) properly, and still had his girlfriend there when your daughter went to stay, shows that he's so wrapped up in himself that he isn't even thinking about how all this is affecting his daughter. It's clearly all about HIS wants and needs. Now that you have told us this, I'd be even less likely to push her into spending overnights there, and wouldn't even be encouraging her to visit him, particularly as it sounds like you don't really need his money. She clearly needs you to back her up OP, and as he's not willing to take on board HER needs or feelings, then I'd leave him to keep digging the hole he's got himself into. He doesn't deserve her while he's still so wrapped up in himself.

I'm not sure why you're asking here for advice on sending her and saying you're still supportive of her going overnight if you've actually already decided that it's not happening and told CMS so. CMS is worked out on average nights over the last year, so it's not lying to say he has her one night a week if that's the long term plan.

It's not the op's job to improve the relationship between the daughter and her dad.

That is the father's responsibility. ( although you can see from the op's posts she has tried. )

@tothelefttotheleft no it's not her job but she’s the one here asking for advice?! That’s the whole point of the post 😂.

Please encourage her not to be a people pleaser! Look at all the MN threads by people who allow themselves to be walked all over and can’t say no, then get into situations where they’re really miserable and being taken advantage of, and can’t see a way out because they have this people pleaser mindset.
You can encourage kids not to be selfish and at the same time not be utter doormats.