For asking for my money back

[Moneyowed2021]

I should start with, this is mostly historical. But I’m trying to understand if I’ve done something wrong. Or if I should have done something wrong… (named changed because this is outing!)

so. I’ve been friends with A for almost 20 years. We have a small group of friends and even though we’re in different places in life we’ve always stayed fairly close.

Last year we all went on holiday. B did the maths wrong and at the last minute needed everyone to pay about £200 more per head.

A struggles with money. She rarely has any to spare and I can appreciate that may be difficult. However, for as long as I’ve known her she’s spent her money on things I can’t understand: multiple concert tickets for the same tour, makeup, etc etc.

I don’t struggle as much. I’m in a well paid job and my dad died unexpectedly when I was younger so I have a small inheritance. I appreciate I’m lucky to sometimes have the money I do have and I have a lovely home and life (although I would give most of it up for a second longer with Dad, but that’s a different point…) However, I budget extremely carefully, I rarely buy anything expensive.

I do, however, think that A has an idea I’m rich, because I have historically been happy to buy a round of drinks etc without any complaints or needing to split, etc.

so, back to the holiday. A couldn’t afford the extra amount so I offered to pay so she could still go. This was last year. July I think. I think she paid back a small amount, maybe £50, in September ish.

Since then. I had a baby in March- she briefly said she knew she owed me some money and I said not to worry about it for now. Nothing since.

Last month I messaged what I thought was a very nice message just saying “sorry, I know it’s a bit awkward, but you still owe me X. Can you figure out if you can pay me back before the end of the year? Let me know if it’s an issue.” Or something along those lines. She didn’t reply, but did transfer the money. So I said thank you. I was quite stunned to not have any message saying “sorry it’s taken so long” or any acknowledgement at all. It all felt quite passive aggressive.

Meanwhile, we’re planning a friend’s birthday party next year- it’s a big one. I’ve paid for the accommodation upfront, as well as for a meal. A has agreed to the price per head at all times. When I paid for the meal last month, a friend asked when I wanted everyone to start paying their shares. I’d paid most of it in August.

I figured out 50% per head and asked if everyone could maybe pay that chunk before Christmas. A piped up that she thought it was “short sighted” (in November) to ask people to pay anything before Christmas. I should add, we’re talking £60. It felt very pointed and directed at me - we still hadn’t (haven’t) spoken since I said thank you for the money. I left it that those who could pay, can, but if it’s not possible then it’s fine to wait.

I’ve since found out that A messaged B back when I asked her for the money and effectively said how awful I was for asking for money when she didn’t have any. Bearing in mind she’d just bought some very expensive earrings which cost over £400.

I’m just so upset that she seems to somehow think I’m the bad guy for asking for my money back. She seems to be going to other friends and trying to get them “on side” and they don’t seem to be biting but equally aren’t standing up for me either.

It seems to be absolutely immaterial to her that I have a young baby, on SMP, and that I also have to pay for Christmas too. And now I have to see her at the party which she still owes me for…!

it sounds dramatic but I’m really quite devastated that a friend would treat me this way.

So, mumsnet, was I unreasonable? Or have I missed something where i may have been unreasonable? Or is she just a CF who hoped I wouldn’t remember what she owes me?

My friends and I have opened a bank account to save up for trips away but putting a monthky amount in, which has worked quite well. We've taken it in turns to be in charge of an account, so that it isn't all down to the same person to organised everything. I think PayPal have a kitty function too.

I think you are confusing what it is to be kind. You are giving people the impression that you don't need the money but then seen to be upset that they don't realise that you do need the money

But I thought you said she mentioned paying you back and you said not to worry?

I'm not saying you should just grind through, but I would have asked for the money by the end of october so I could include that money in my budget, or even September if you thought there might be an issue getting it back in time.

Not quite. She said she knew that she owed me money. She said she felt bad about owing it to me and that she felt terrible and that she intended to pay me when she got a bonus she was due.

I told her not to worry about it, ie not to feel terrible. But I definitely didn’t say “never worry about how much you owe me.”

Maybe it’s just me, but even if I thought someone didn’t “need” the money, I’d still want to pay people back the money I owe…

She sounds like one of these people that get to a lend but hate paying it back.
I think the only thing going forward is not to pay for things for her.
She doesn't have the money,she doesn't go.

You say you haven’t spoken with her since she paid back the money, yet know she has new earrings and how much they cost? How do you know and are you sure about this? If the info has come from a friend, are you sure it’s correct and the friend isn’t stirring?

I’m not sure why you’re not learning that your friend is a free loader. Also, don’t ever pay for things up front for people. You need to set a date that people pay you and then you buy that many tickets. No arguments and you’re never out of pocket.

The earrings were two weeks ish before I asked for the money back. Also we’re on a group chat and she mentioned there.

she then went on to plead poverty to B when I asked for the money.

Of course You aren’t being unreasonable OP. She’s a cheeky cow and if she’s splashing the cash in your group chat, other people will see her exactly for what she is. I would be mortified in her place.

Maybe it’s just me, but even if I thought someone didn’t “need” the money, I’d still want to pay people back the money I owe…

OP that's how decent people should behave. She knew she owed you money, if she didn't budget paying you back rather than buying herself jewellery, that's her problem. I wouldn't lend anymore to her in future. She doesn't come across as grateful

@Moneyowed2021 I organise group things frequently but I don’t give credit. The group agrees amounts, pays up then I book. Occasionally I might buy flights but only to get a special deal and only having agreed up front and had confirmation from all parties they can pay. And openly I will say, ‘just waiting for one payment; we will miss the deal’. You’re not a credit broker. If she messages publicly again then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to remind her it’s about choices - earrings or the party but not both with one at your expense!

I would say to A if she can't afford to pay for the meal before Christmas not to worry you'll cancel her place and hopefully see her on the next planned event.

Call her bluff.

You are not being unreasonable but stop getting caught in this trap.

Either everyone pays up front or someone else takes the hit and does the booking. If you keep doing this and absorbing the costs until one person decides they might pay it back, then they will all start taking you for a mug.

If she cannot afford it she shouldn't go. Or she should start saving not spending lots of money on earrings.

Yep. It seems nuclear but it’s not, my reasoning being she’s going behind your back to mutual friends complaining about you wanting money you’re owed!

She’s using you as a free credit line – she can only “afford” (clearly she can’t) £400 on earrings, and to pay for Christmas, because she’s got an interest-free credit system going with you. After Christmas it will be something else, then something else.

I think in future you need to draw firmer boundaries and be much more clear when doing things like putting it all on your card and getting paid back – which sucks because it sounds like 99% of your friends are reasonable people who pay what they owe, but A isn’t. No more “not to worry, no hurry”.

Does she know about your inheritance? It sounds like she thinks it’s a “money for life” situation versus a small cushion. Plus she’s picturing you as a grown-up – you’ve got the life and the baby and the money to pay for things upfront – and she’s the single friend who has to scrap along alone. Definitely a level of resentment fuelling her chattering to B about it all. (Leaving aside that if she didn’t fritter her money on £400 earrings she probably would be fine.)

Generally yes but if you are telling people not to worry about it and not asking for months then wanting it straight away it is mixed messages.

Of course your not unreasonable to ask for money back but you need to stop paying upfront. That's what I have had to do. I have a friend that will want to do things but will never offer to book and waits until someone else (me) books it. I then have to chase her for the money every single time. Its came to the point where I can't ask her to do anything that requires booking in advance because she won't book herself and she delays paying me back. I genuinely beleive she does it in the hope she won't need to pay. It's changed the friendship because anything that requires paying advance we can't do anymore because I'm so fed up having to chase her for money.

A is a twat. Get your £60 money from her asap.

And in future, tell everyone from the outset when money needs to be paid, so she can’t pull this shit again.

Call her out in the group chat so she can’t back bite.

But neither of these things happened? I told her not to worry ie. not to feel terrible about it. I didn’t say “never pay me back.”
And I didn’t ask for it straightaway. I asked her for it within the next two months, and said that if she couldn’t it wasn’t a huge issue, just to let me know.

I can see a consistent theme is that I was giving mixed messages which I will work on. The person who said I need to put boundaries in place is probably right. I just wish trust was enough with old friends.

The person who mentioned whether she was grateful really hit home to me. I don’t think she’s ever said thank you. In hindsight that’s what really upsets me- that when she did transfer the money there was no gratitude for having leant it beforehand or apologies for the wait. It was oddly cold and then to find out she was bitching to B has just really hurt…

Saying 'don't worry about it' is saying 'don't pay me back'.

If I bought you a coffee and you put your hand in your pocket and I said 'don't worry about it', I mean it's on me, not 'pay me back in your own time'.

Okay so this is definitely context.
she said (paraphrasing) “I’m aware I owe you. I feel terrible. I’ll pay you when this big bonus comes.”
I said “don’t worry over it. I’m not stressing, I know you’ll sort it when you can.”
she said “thanks for being understanding. I promise it’ll be sorted when this money comes in.”
I said, great.
Definitely no implication that don’t worry = don’t pay.

This is interesting though because yes maybe in a coffee context I would think that, but I don’t think I would ever assume anyone was just waiving a £100+ debt. Not to mention if that was the assumption, I’d expect a “thank you” or, “no you don’t have to, I insist” kind of response?

Meanwhile, we’re planning a friend’s birthday party next year- it’s a big one. I’ve paid for the accommodation upfront, as well as for a meal. A has agreed to the price per head at all times. When I paid for the meal last month, a friend asked when I wanted everyone to start paying their shares. I’d paid most of it in August.

I'm amazed that your friend had to ask you when to start paying their shares. Surely they must have known that they needed to pay you as soon as you had paid, back in August? Why should you be out of pocket for several months?

Did B ask why she bought the earrings if she was so poor?

Good point. I don’t know, really. Everyone did know what was owed but I think at the time there could have been more expenses (like the meal) so it just made sense to rack up all the totals then split when we knew properly.

in hindsight though, I suppose it is quite strange that the whole group hadn’t offered earlier. Maybe there is some underlying issue with how we do things…

I don’t think B wanted to stir the pot. Which is unhelpful and I am low key annoyed at B for not standing up for me.