To think my Ukranian guests are reasonable in refusing to engage with the council's support worker?\

[listsandbudgets]

We've had a group of 3 Ukrainians with us now since April. The council like to make regular checks to make sure everything is going well and so far it's been fine. However their caseworker changed in September and the new one is Russian. She emails them in Russian and phone to talk to them in Russian and is generally very pushy insisting on coming to see them at times to suit her and then not turning up - they took a couple of hours off work last week to be available. Its not the first time either

They've now written and said they will not communicate with her any further as long as she continues to speak / write in Russian as they find it upsetting. They CAN speak Russian but they don't want to and honestly right now I don't blame them. They've asked her several times to use English or Ukrainian or even Polish or German (they have grasp of them all to varying degrees) but she responds in Russian.

AIBU to think that this is utterly insensitive

We have no way of knowing whether their discomfort is a trauma response. I had PTSD after a trauma and certain things are still triggering (actually triggering not drama llama triggering). Ordinary things that people don't realise are triggering. At my worst I completely disengaged from situations involving those things because my reaction was so overwhelming and upsetting.

This trauma response included interaction with people who were trying to help me but who displayed something that would trigger a reaction in me. Not impossible that this is in play here with the sound of Russian or a Russian speaker

Do we live in Russia?

This is the UK, she should be speaking English if requested.

Absolutely they should complain.

She can use English

That’s appalling

So?

She’s been very reasonably asked not to use it.

She needs to use English instead

There is a lot of politics involved in language and language choices. Historically languages have been used to oppress, and that is one of the reasons Russian is spoken in Ukraine and more people in Ireland speak English than Irish, and all the Irish speakers are bilingual with English.

The council worker is not doing her job, her job is to support these people and to make their life easier, she is not doing this.

OP

You are 100% right in your support.

And you are also doing a great thing.

It beggars belief, what were they thinking!

That is shocking - please complain Op. Hope they get the support they need.

But these particular people have specifically told her not to speak in Russian to them.

they have given four languages they can converse in, including English.

it’s irrelevant what the case workers first language is. She is supposed to be providing a support service and she is failing dismally. And if she is working to support Ukrainian refugees in the U.K. then she should be expected to have a fluent command of English in order to do her job

So they all speak the same language, but the council will have to provide an interpreter into a third one?

Some Polish or some German is certainly not good enough to be able to sort things out.

I don’t know, i understand to an extent their position, bur it will make things easier for them if they were to engage.

If they're Russian, I wouldn't be so confident of that.

As a general observation of their diplomats, government officials, and TV programmes that seems to be their mindset

I don't blame the Ukrainians. If my country had been invaded and people raped, tortured and murdered by a terrorist state I wouldn't want to be conversing in that language either

You'd think the council support worker would have some iota of sensitivity to acknowledge that. But then, if they are Russian then I'm not surprised

What about English?

They all live in the UK, as the Russian works here within the council, it's a fairly safe bet they speak English. They wouldn't be well equipped to do their job if they didn't. And even if the Ukrainian refugees English isn't perfect, I'm pretty sure op would help out where needed.

You are creating an issue where there isn't one.

She sounds like an ass they’re quite right to ditch her.

Refusing to speak English in England to people who she’s supposedly supporting who have requested that she do so? Insisting on speaking in the language of the army that made them refugees? She’s a bully, plain and simple.

I’d put in a formal complaint about her.

For every email they receive in Russian, they should just do a one line reply saying "please email in English". The support worker will soon get the message.

If my country had been invaded and people raped, tortured and murdered by a terrorist state I wouldn't want to be conversing in that language either

That's just silly when there are absolutely loads of Ukrainians that only speak Russian.

Quite a lot of Ukrainians who previously spoke both are now only speaking Ukrainian. Are they silly?

Tbh I am learning a lot about national identity from hosting refugees and the importance of cultural symbols is something I have never previously understood. Language is one of those symbols. It is very emotionally freighted.

A lot of Ukrainians speak Ukrainian as a first language, it’s irrelevant if others speak Russian as a first language in this case. It’s not appropriate to demand Russian just because it works for someone else. In England it is reasonable to expect English, unless the service user requires translation.

My family are Ukrainian speakers. The younger ones do not have great fluency in Russian. Whilst they understand they speak it poorly, with accents and mix up words. They struggle to clearly articulate more than a basic level. They have grown up with Ukrainian TV/ social media, Ukrainian education and in a Ukrainian speaking family, they never saw the USSR and it’s like a fairy tale compared to how they live. Writing is even worse. It’s embarrassing to be forced into communicating poorly for no reason, even without the tensions. We had similar from one case worker who got funny, offering Polish, English or Ukrainian as languages spoken.

They aren’t as easily mixable as people who speak both assert. Talk to Russians in Ukrainian and see how far you get.

Btw the way I’m not against speaking Russian. We do with friends who share it as a common language, and through work for practical reasons (for example an older Kazak gentleman wants clear information about services). I actually raised a concern early on that our council only provided Ukrainian translation at first, knowing many refugees would be Russian speakers from the East, and I offered to help with urgent translation.

I would still be very very annoyed though at someone demanding Russian who was employed by my local council in a job role that would obviously need good English . That’s just making a point for some weird reason.

I also, in England, same as family in Ukraine have had no reason to raise a next generation of Russian speakers. My children don’t speak it.

Is their English fluent? If so I would make one more unambiguous request in writing to communicate in English, and after that if she still persisted put in a formal complaint. Leave out any mention of having offered to communicate in Ukrainian/Polish/German to make the grounds of the complaint as straightforward and unarguable as possible. It is entirely reasonable to request that a local council worker in the UK should communicate in English when requested to do so, and I don't see how this woman would have a leg to stand on. What language did the previous one communicate in? If it was English, that just strengthens the evidence on their side.

What happens if she rings up in Russian and they reply in English? Does she switch to English or keep speaking Russian?

They shouldn't be taking time off work for these non essential appointments though. Our guests' council liaison just phone or messages them.

Silly?

that's quite a basic argument you have there

I'm well aware of the first and home languages used in Ukraine

I know of plenty who have Russian as a first language who feel the same

Most of the government too.