DD being sent home from nursery

[Pepper34]

On the weekend of the 19th DD (3) came down with symptoms of hand foot and mouth. I let nursery know that we would keep her off that week and what she had.

Our other two came down with the same (5yo and baby) and eldests school suggested keeping him off that week as its a SEN school and the Early Years groups have alot of close contact and mouth toys etc. That was no problem.

Fast forward to today both children go back to school and nursery, they're completely over it now and the rashes are gone.

20 minutes after DH dropped DD to nursery en route to work I get a call from them asking what illness she was off with last week.

I reminded them that i'd already told them, it was hand foot and mouth.

Nursery assistant replies that they've had a few children off with that recently (that'll be where DD got it from) and that the children who had it aren't allowed back into nursery until the 5th December.

Nobody bothered to tell us that.

The only response I received when telling them DD wouldn't be coming in last week was them saying thanks for letting them know.

AIBU to think this is really shit of them?

Wow, mine didn't even have to have 2 weeks off with covid at the height of the pandemic. That's a batshit amount of time to exclude for illness.

Sadly private nurseries can set their own illness policies and if you've signed their T&Cs I'm not sure there's that much you can do about it other than move your child. But as pp said definitely ask to see the written illness policy, don't let the manager just make random things up.

I have worked in both private and maintained nurseries for the past fifteen years so thought I would share my opinion....
Nurseries and other childcare settings are required to follow the guidance set by the department for education on the control of infectious diseases; therefore there would be a period of exclusion for hand, foot and mouth, regardless of what the nhs says. If I can remember I believe it may be until the spots on a child's hands or mouth have dried?
However, your child's nursery are being ridiculous. You acted responsibly and took the necessary precautions. The nursery has no right to demand a further exclusion of your child. I would request an explanation from the manager and if they are not able to give a satisfactory answer I would contact your local authority.
Lots of nurseries are experiencing staff shortages at the moment due to general winter illnesses...my guess is they thought they would try their luck and see if you would keep your child off for longer.

Ask to see their infection control policy. I suspect it's a staffing issue and this is there way out of it.

This is the UK government advice (issued by the UKHSA not the DfE, but applying to education settings): www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-protection-in-schools-and-other-childcare-facilities

There is no exclusion period for hand, foot and mouth in government advice.

The guidance was updated in October 2022. So it’s definitely current. For HFM:

I’m not convinced that the DfE would be very pleased with settings ignoring UKHSA guidance and setting ridiculous exclusion policies that deny children access more than 5% of their annual early years education (2 of the 38 weeks the DfE are funding) without good reason.

private nurseries can set their own policies, but they need to make sure they are following appropriate guidance and not denying children access to a funded EY place the taxpayer is providing. If they want more freedom, the nursery can decide not to offer funded EY places.

A group email has been sent to all parents this afternoon, including me, asking for us to check our child's for signs of HFM and what the symptoms are as there has been an outbreak at nursery.

The email then goes on to say "in line with our sickness policy..." and the 2 weeks exclusion speal.

This new sickness policy must have been made up on the spot as there's nothing whatsoever in the contract about 2 week exclusions, it wasn't even revised during covid.

I did ask outright whether it was a staffing issue and I don't think she appreciated that 😶

I would go back and ask for a copy of the sickness policy. When you get it, check it against the version you were previously provided with. If you have a WhatsApp group ask anyone if they have seen the sickness policy as well and let NM know that you have been discussing with other parents as well and there is a lot of concern about the reliability of the nursery. The NM is banking on you dropping it.

That's ridiculous. I'd be looking for a new nursery.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-protection-in-schools-and-other-childcare-facilities/managing-specific-infectious-diseases-a-to-z#hand-foot-and-mouth-disease

Nothing scientific to support this policy. I’d make a formal complaint tbh and I’m not a complainer!

OP, I think it's got to a point where you should inform Ofsted

That is over the top. There is no exclusion for HF&M unless they are unwell with it. The guidelines state that it is impossible to contain and children are infectious before the spots come out.

After how much we spent on nursery fees I would die on this hill! Do you know any of the other excluded children?

I would highlight to them that this was not mentioned in the contract that you agreed To.

It does appear to be the case that other children were excluded along with DD.

The giveaway was in the nursery assistants wording when she called this morning asking me to collect her, she said they're asking "all of the" children who have had HFM to stay home until the 5th Dec.

can you reply all with a link to the UKHSA guidance and very pointedly ask on what basis the nursery has decided they know better than the expert advice for schools and nurseries produced by this UK government department?

And also ask how they are going to make up the two weeks of lost education entitlement as a result only of their overzealous policy.

What is the thought process of no children being allowed back until the 5th? I can’t understand it.

I agree children should not be in nursery when they are unwell, as it’s unfair to expect nursery to care for sick children. But you can’t just suspend children for an arbitrary length of time because they were unwell before.

So does that mean that a child who gets it on the 1st of December only needs to stay off 4 days? It sounds like someone didn't plan their annual leave well.

I used to manage a private nursery. They 100% CANNOT do this unless it is explicitly stated in their infection control policy.

When I set up the nursery and spoke to the Care Inspectorate about our policies they stated that the bottom line was - whenever a parent complained to them the first thing they would do is check our relevant policies. If our actions were in line with our relevant policy documents (which, coincidentally the CI signed off on - they went through ALL 26 of them!) then no further action would be taken.

I highly doubt this manager is acting in line with nursery policy and, as such, I'd complain to the CI.

P.S. Just in case they have "magically updated" a policy to be in line with their current actions i would still complain because (a) parents should be fully notified and consulted on all policy document updates (b) it's not reasonable as not in line with NHS guidance.

Staffing issues for sure!

My little boy had HFM last week which he caught from Nursery, he was still allowed in. I would be putting a complaint in.

That was my thread on here, about my nursery playing fast and loose with sickness and exclusion policies! It was recent, but unfortunately I don’t know how to link it.

I’d be asking to be refunded for the days my child is being asked to stay away from nursery for, contrary to NHS advice. I’d also ask when the policy was updated and how this was communicated to parents (with proof) and refer back to the original contract. I’d then be looking for a new, better managed, nursery.

If they refuse refund I’d be going to small claims. But I’m petty like that 😝

As far as I know, you don't need to keep your child at home if they have HFM. My little one was fine to go into the nursery when he had it, and I think pretty much all the kids in the nursery had it at the same time to be honest.

I know this is about HFM, but I had a similar issue with my DD & conjunctivitis.
nursery wouldn’t have her unless she had antibiotics. Dr refused antibiotics as unnecessary (it was unnecessary and wasn’t contagious !) & would clear up. (She had eczema on her eyelid and it’d flare up occasionally when she messed with it)

dr gave me a hand written letter for nursery, threatening to report them to ofsted with nhs and world health organisation guidance for all infectious childhood diseases and which permitted exclusion for what time periods!