To ask where have all the GPs gone?

[Lolacat1234]

Got sent to an "urgent care walk in centre" by 111 today because my 3 year old daughter has a high temp and was very unwell earlier today. Got there and very soon realised I had been sent to A&E, there is no such thing as an urgent care walk in centre, it's just another name for A&E. Sat there for 6 hours before deciding she needed sleep and her own bed and that I would try my GP surgery in the morning. Please no comments about I should have stayed, when I left there were 25 people ahead of my daughter and I had already been there 6 hours, she had lost it and was having a breakdown. My instinct said it was OK to leave, dose her up and reassess in the morning.

As I was leaving (I was the 3rd mum with a sick child to give up and go within half an hour) the receptionist just said they can't manage an out of hours service at all because there are no GPs. My friend I was chatting to told me her local surgery has no GPs at all just nurse practitioners and they bring them in from another local surgery if needed. It all seems very scary.

Where have they all gone?

Thing is I pay quite a lot of tax. When you include NI, council tax and vat I hand over around 40% of what I earn to the government already, same as most people earning less than the average household income.

I can't really give them any more.

Blimey? Really? I didn't realise my colleagues and I trained for 10 years + for fun and an easy life.
Not. A . Clue

200k ?? Oh my god are you actually serious FFS

Some wild guessing on this thread.

I've been a GP for 20 years. I've just finished catching up after my easy part time 50 hr 200k week.
This thread perfectly demonstrates why 2 if my colleagues have retired. We cannot recruit and I am planning to reduce hours and leave GP as soon as I can.
You lot really dont deserve general practice and I wish you well with what comes next. I really dont give a shit anymore.
Oh and yes I am burnt out, exhausted and in debt. But easy life right?

The type of people who become GPs, often aren’t the type of people who want to do medicine longterm but want the lifestyle / might have gone into a hedgefund once upon a time. Many unfortunately do see it as a means to a lifestyle / early retirement and working past 9-5 isn’t compatible with it.

What a load of utter rubbish!!!!! Those of you on this thread who are GPs I salute you, and please ignore the more ignorant comments from some posters who clearly have no idea.

This.
We lost two GP's to early retirement recently. No replacement.
Now the nurses are going. Two leaving in Feb. Another is eyeing it up aged 60 and I'm out in four years.
It's a timebomb.

A mum friend of mine was a GP, had her children and had a five year break, and wanted to return (thinking she redo training at the GP surgery) and got told she had to redo the junior doctor year in the hospital. She said I did that in my 20s. She not returning as a gp now . Just example of one person I know.

I was in no way suggesting that a part time GP doesn’t work hard ! The question was about seeing one and I was saying what it is like in our Practice where , on paper , there are 9 GPs but on a given day there are usually only 4/5 so it is hard to get an appointment.
I know how much paper work is required ( friend is retired GP) but that’s not really what this post is about .

GPs need medical secretary type assistance, the amount of paper work is overwhelming.

GPs have to be paid much much more than they are now. Ditto Nurses, Dentists, specialists, healthcare workers, just about everyone in health care. Where does the money to do this come from? Everyone in work. So more tax take. Prepare yourself.

There aren't enough tax payers though since everything is weighted towards income. We have an ageing population & a lack of investment, it's not sustainable.

Well I had exactly the opposite.

I filled in a form on my GPs website, got triaged by one of the two GPs who is on this service thing, got called 5 minutes later to go in and I was home within 20 minutes of arriving.

The Dr said by doing this online hybrid form they see 60 patients a day rather than have their appointments blocked in. So operate as a drop in centre.

I was so impressed. They still have some GPs who operate in a traditional way but this hybrid method is absolutely phenomenal in terms of efficiency.

Your problem I think was dialing 111 rather than using a local GP?

Also housing & studying costs make younger people have to choose options that give them financial security, how can you judge them for that?

@LittleDonkeyKong in the last seven years, my GP practice failed to read dd's notes shortly after we moved (potentially catastrophic as she had been self harming my cutting and had disclosed this to our old GP), failed to refer me in relation to Osteoporosis, missed a significant diagnosis - again due to not reading the notes. Notwithstanding the fact the practice constantly cocks up prescriptions, has sent me letters relating to other people and one of the partners told me going for a run would do my osteoporosis good - I had a broken foot. They don't answer the phone and the GP's clearly believe they are superior to their patients.

Sadly they are the better practice where we live. Pray, do tell, why the public should be grateful for far from optimal care, far from optimal commissioning, delivered by people who negotiated themselves a new contract under Blair, on more favourable terms than previously.

The problem with the NHS is that we have are expected to be grateful for poor standards of service and expertise on the basis that we get it for "free". We do not, it is free at the point of delivery. Gratitude has a lot to answer for.

If my GPs want my respect they need to start running services that respect the patients' time as much as their own and start to afford me the same level of respect they expect to receive from patients.

A lot took early retirement because it made more financial sense.

I’m sorry you’re burnt out but who on this thread is attacking GP’s? Everyone is standing with them saying many have jumped to other countries where the get better pay and conditions.

a close family member was a GP for 45 years. They’ve been predicting the crisis in GP surgery for 20 years. Successive governments have stripped back patient care and made everything about quotas. Said retired GP is caring for elderly mother now and can’t get GP appointments for her.

Yes there’s a lot of people who take GP’s for granted, but there is a genuine crisis looming that is causing patients a lot of issues. That is not the fault of the general population.

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/27/brexit-worsened-shortage-nhs-doctors-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Brexit. The gift that keeps on giving.

‘If my GPs want my respect they need to start running services that respect the patients' time as much as their own and start to afford me the same level of respect they expect to receive from patients.’

Respect the patient’s time. Love it.

So talk me through your logic.

You don't rate the gps we have here and you think they are poor quality but you don't think paying more and improving conditions would help retain a better class of candidate? What are you suggesting then?

@Sirius3030 you have a problem with GPs respecting patients' time? What is that because I have a problem calling my GP, waiting 20 minutes for the phone to be answered, being told to call back at 12.30, then 2.30, then 4.30 - probably an hour on hold - to be given an appointment a few days later (that bit is good) and be met with a huge sign that says "if you are late for your appointment, the GP may not see you", sit in waiting room for 45 minutes (late clearly only works one way) and then be greeted by an individual who doesn't apologise for the wait but expects me to afford them the courtesy of a title whilst assuming they may use my first name.

Add in the chasing of repeat prescriptions when they don't reach the pharmacy, the delays re referrals, etc, and the 6 week wait for an early morning blood test because you know what, some of the scummy patients go to work as well but there is no common sense exerted that keeps the 8.30 to 8.45 slots clear for working people.

I would prefer a Continental system where money changes hands for those not covered by benefits. That would soon inject a bit of customer service into the system.

I think you've misunderstood. The claim is that GPs should be paid 200K, not that they are. (More specifically, that was given up-thread as what they are paid in other countries, specifically Australia.)

I think the issue is workload, not pay, but theoretically, more pay should attract enough extra people to reduce the workload.

@Memorial by referring to "you lot" who do you mean? The taxpayers who work as hard as you and wouldn't get their bills paid if their services were inflexible, unavailable and poor. I think your tone sums up the issue. "You lot" I assume you mean the scummy public who shoukd be grateful and doff their caps at their GPs who do them the favour of seeing them for free?

I shall heave a sigh of relief when I have an honest transactional relationship with my physician who hopefully will be allowed to opt out of the nanny state.

Lots have left, and are still leaving as it's a hugely stressful job and generally shit. The same is happening elsewhere in the NHS, healthcare professionals are leaving in droves and I genuinely think it's terrifying.

How do you propose this though? Appointment times are ludicrously short, and sometimes there will be patients who for genuine and unavoidable reasons require a few extra minutes. Do you think GPs twiddle their thumbs between patients and laugh at how late people's appointments are running? Or perhaps is the reason more likely to be they are working within an unsustainable system with unmanageable workloads?

It's not that simple though is it. Every newly qualified doctor needs a training place from FY1 to completion of their training. Those training places can't just be invented, they need to be meaningful training. Then there needs to be a consultant/GP or whatever post for them to go into.

When you just put more people through med school, you end up (as has recently happened) with no posts for them to start training in. Medical workforce planning has been a mess for decades. I was once at a meeting with the DH and BMA where a colleague put forward the radical (!) idea that working out how many trained doctors you'd need to deliver a service, then work backwards to ensure the right number of training posts back to to the right numbers of medical students would actually help solve this issue. Both the DH and BMA attendees said it was 'too difficult'. This was in the mid 2000s.

It seems this hasnt changed, other than the situation has got much worse in terms of workforce attrition.