Police accuse cyclist of public order offence because he swore at an unmarked police car parked in a bus line - his swearing could have upset his children and it could have led to him being stabbed

[cakeorwine]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11474195/Moment-cyclist-swears-unmarked-police-car-officer-accuses-public-order-offence.html

This is interesting

Cyclist with children on the back had to swerve to get out of the way of a vehicle parked in a bus lane

He swore at the occupants.

Turns out to be an unmarked police vehicle.

Advised not to swear in public with his children as it could cause them upset. So that's a public order offence.

And also it's dangerous to swear at people in Wandsworth because he could get stabbed.

So I admit that I have sworn at vehicles on the road who don't seem to understand the Highway code. With DS present.

And it probably is dangerous to swear at people because you don't know how they would react.

The guy was forced into a manoeuvre that he shouldn't have had to make. Owing to the type of bike and the precious cargo it's pretty understandable that you want to avoid extra manoeuvres. People who drive, rather than ride, don't really build up an appreciation that the more stuff you do when riding and the more interaction you have with traffic increases your chance of something bad happening. Using a bike in a city is suffering an endless stream of minor transgressions and every once in a while you say something.

The guy had to pull round an obstruction that as far as anyone could tell shouldn't have been there. Ok so it was an unmarked car and it might have been there on official business but to the cyclist it's just another arsehole parked in a lane you're not meant to park in.

Swearing at people and possibly getting stabbed or slapped is your own look out. Most people in reality would put their hand up and say sorry mate I've parked like a wanker and that would be it. Even in deepest darkest Wandsworth

According to the article the police were there to stop a particular vehicle so they were on police business not cooping

Yes but that's either a lie or the copper was willing to risk their operation over nothing

I think crashing would have upset the children more than swearing, though neither are ideal

The cyclist didn't have to swerve, he could see the car from over a hundred yards away. He didn't have to swear and the police could have been more understanding of the situation.

But there is no way on earth I would put my kids in one of those trailer boxes that are pulled by bikes.

The copper is the kind of arsehole that he's warning the cyclist about. Someone who will react disproportionately to the situation. It's not his experience as a police that tells him this it's his experience as an aggressive disproportionate reacting wanker

It is not a public order offence unless there is an actual complainant and the complainant cannot be a cop. That cop just didn't like being called out for parking in the wrong place.

As far as I'm aware, hypothetical events that 'could have' happened (but didn't) are still not subject to criminal charge in supposedly democratic Britain.

A brief window of throwing their weight about during Covid lockdown and asking shoppers what's in their baskets seems to have gone to some police officers' heads. And that's before we get to shit-listing people who have committed no criminal offence because they've said something that offended somebody else and they reported it as 'hate speech' (see barrister Sarah Phillimore's appeal against precisely this), or particular forces not approving of the politics someone's tweets and calling them to 'check their thinking'. Meanwhile, women who are afraid for their safety can flag down a bus.

Abuse of institutional power is a real problem here.

This.

That cop really needs to be taught about not escalating a situation. The pretending to be concerned about the children, whilst announcing their dad could have been stabbed
🙄

For those of you suggesting that the cyclist didn't have to swerve, have you ever riden a bike with a trailer?

Blatantly abuse of power. The police sat in the bus/cycle lane causing the cyclist to move into traffic. When he responded by objecting vocally instead of acknowledging they'd been a knob, they pulled him over and tried to make him feel in the wrong. They should be retrained on their behaviour at least. Or is this now so institutional that they feel it's OK?

Wow , that policeman was aggressive and I'm usually on their side. The cyclist apologised as soon as he realised

Your last sentence amply answers that question IMO.

If anything eroded my trust in the police it was the Sarah Everard vigil. It was inviting a women’s activist for a ‘voluntary’ interview, under threat of arrest for non-participation (therefore not in anyone’s language voluntary), because someone reported her for ‘hate speech’. Precisely what she’d said, and exactly what offence she’d committed, Sussex Constabulary refused to say.

I truly hope I am never reliant on the police to do for me what they are supposedly there to do, ie. 'serve and protect'. As for being on the wrong side of the law, that was something that until very recently I'd deemed highly unlikely (thankfully I'm not of the demographic that tends to come to their notice; not that this is a right state of affairs either). But these days merely being a law-abiding citizen isn't enough to prevent you coming to their notice. All that's necessary is to commit thoughtcrime/wrongthink by some nebulous definition, and you'll be in the system toute suite. Conviction or no conviction.

Frankly, I find it sinister.

So if a cyclist is cycling on the pavement, but you can see them from a distance, thereby giving you time not to collide, is that ok? I'm not sure what the sight distance has to do with anything

Cyclist was a twat for swearing at car parked in cycle lane. He avoided it without incident, had plenty of time to react, didn't "swerve" to avoid. Total overreaction for something that didn't really matter.

Officer was a twat for overreacting. Cyclist apologised immediately but officer had to come down heavy, I presume as he'd been challenged by the cyclist so was macho exerting his dominance. Other officer didn't need to jump out either.

Twat meets twat, score draw.

Cyclist was a twat for swearing at car parked in cycle lane. He avoided it without incident, had plenty of time to react, didn't "swerve" to avoid. Total overreaction for something that didn't really matter.

but it does really matter - the cyclist had to move from the relatively safe bus lane into the main traffic stream.
There is no excuse for parking there

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I totally agree.

You the law is the law. You expect an officer to enforce the law. This is what happened

There is no law that you can't swear in public. If there were then most of the population would be being fined on a regular basis! What's happening here is that the police officer is abusing the power that his position gives him and using a badly drafted law to give a thin veneer of legitimacy to his aggressive response.

@Mia85

These offences contrary to the Public Order Act 1986 relate to threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or display of visible representations, which:
• Are likely to cause fear of, or to provoke, immediate violence: section 4;
• Intentionally cause harassment, alarm or distress: section 4A; or
• Are likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress (threatening or abusive words or behaviour only): section 5.

The law is the law

They ticketed themselves for parking in a bus lane?

You think what he said amounts to that?

Yes I know that. The law is drafted in an extraordinarily broad way. Can you show me any case law that says swearing in public in this manner comes under it? The reality is that the law is full of ambiguous provisions like this that can easily be abused by officers who want to make life difficult for people.

It’s the Met, enough said.

The officers were in the bus lane legitimately- they were on an operation. The law allows for this.

Re: the profanity shouted by the cyclist- swearing may not bother you or me. It does bother other people, and therefore the relevant parts of the Public Order Offence come into play.

Don't forget- the cyclist didn't know he was swearing at police. He thought he was swearing at another member of the public- some of whom may have felt harassed or intimidated.

@OneTC

Swearing in public is an atrestable offence

The law is the law

@OneTC

1. being in a Bus lane is ticketed by the council NOT police
2. they will be ticketed but will have to give a reason as to why they were in the lane if it is justified then they will not be ticketed