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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is there hypocrisy of constant criticism of Qatar (World Cup)?

110 replies

SleepDreamThinkHuge · 26/11/2022 14:30

I was speaking with my friends, and we all noticed how much outrage is given to Qatar compared to other countries. Yes, Qatar has some awful laws and things going in their country but so do a lot of countries. There was little outrage given to Russia World Cup 2018 and the Olympics in China but when it comes to Qatar a lot of people are virtue signalling. For example, singers like Dua Lipa saying they are not going to perform in Qatar because of human rights. But they do concerts in Dubai which have similar laws to Qatar. I think a lot of people need to realize that Qatar own or have influence to a lot of things in London (Shard, Harrods, Savoy hotel, stock exchange etc..)

I was listening to the radio and a caller made an interesting point "what country is 100 percent perfect?" Even in 2026 USA, Mexico and Canada World Cup there are many issues there. USA- Gun issues, Abortion not always being legalised etc... Mexico - lot of drug cartels there. But I bet you they will not get the same outrage as Qatar.

OP posts:
TomPinch · 26/11/2022 19:19

ilovesooty · 26/11/2022 16:39

I hardly know where to start...

6,500 deaths for an entertainment event. Even the Romans compare favourably with that.

TomPinch · 26/11/2022 19:26

daretodenim · 26/11/2022 16:02

I'm fed up of the rainbow armband controversies and the fake concerns about LGBTQIA+ people in Qatar.

How about ridding football in The West of homophobia first?!!! How many gay pro footballers are there? How many out gay footballers are there in the U.K. in the 2nd and 3rd divisions? It's not because there are no gay men who play football - unless they've self-selected out earlier for their own safety and mental health.

Qatar has problems and I don't think the WC should have been held there. But the hypocrisy is nauseating.

And yes, the difference with Dubai is minimal but everybody is fine to go there for work and holidays.

Something Qatar has done really well is show a nice side to Islam. It's tried to show a human and humane side. A side that many, many people live by. Of course that's not been picked up by our media because there's apparently a narrative they are intent on following.

I think the armband fiasco is making everyone involved looking very silly, but your post is classic whataboutery and ignores the fact that homophobia isn't acceptable in the countries caught up in it.

The better objection is that it's so selective in its choice of issue (what about the dead construction workers for example) that, outside the West, like cultural imperialism, but I don't think that really reflects well on the Qataris.

daretodenim · 26/11/2022 20:19

I think the armband fiasco is making everyone involved looking very silly, but your post is classic whataboutery and ignores the fact that homophobia isn't acceptable in the countries caught up in it.

How is it whataboutery? It's a totally fair comparison made with Western football in order to highlight the hypocrisy of Western media. Homophobia may not be acceptable in the West in general..only it IS in football and isn't even that hidden. It's an open secret (although barely a secret) and nobody is complaining, wearing armbands in solidarity with gay players, or saying they'd like to boycott matches because of it!

The better objection is that it's so selective in its choice of issue (what about the dead construction workers for example) that, outside the West, like cultural imperialism, but I don't think that really reflects well on the Qataris.

I'm not totally following what your point is in the second half of this. The media haven't only been discussing the illegality of homosexuality though, there's been plenty of other discussions. It's just what I was focussing my post on though as to me it's the clearest example of hypocrisy (to me) there is in all this.

Keyansier · 26/11/2022 20:26

TrickorTreacle · 26/11/2022 15:59

@Keyansier - please stop with your dismay about football taking over Christmas.

Christmas lights are up in every town I've visited so far, and Black Friday is a frequent story in the press at the moment. Go into a coffee shop or a pub and they'll have a Christmas menu on, even now (November) as I have already eaten from Christmas menus.

Just be glad that Tory politics is no longer prominent on the front pages!

Why? If it's something I think is a major talking point worth raising the issue of?

flashbac · 26/11/2022 20:31

TomPinch · 26/11/2022 19:19

6,500 deaths for an entertainment event. Even the Romans compare favourably with that.

This statistic has been debunked. Its fake.

flashbac · 26/11/2022 20:32

I'm with you op. I'll go further and call it for what it is. Islamophobia.

Whattaboutit · 26/11/2022 20:40

I think the difference between Qatar and, for example, China is that we can separate the Chinese State from the general population of China. We know that the population is oppressed and that people have to stay quiet to survive. In Qatar we perceive that the general population support the ruling class as it’s made them very wealthy and are happy to benefit from slave labour.

Msgrieves · 26/11/2022 20:45

I agree, it's people picking and choosing what to get outraged about because the msm has highlighted it. Honestly if it's not on the BBC or the guardian, it doesn't exist to most people. Anyone who talks about things not in the mainstream are dangerous conspiracy theorists. Does my fucking nut in.

Msgrieves · 26/11/2022 20:50

Whattaboutit · 26/11/2022 20:40

I think the difference between Qatar and, for example, China is that we can separate the Chinese State from the general population of China. We know that the population is oppressed and that people have to stay quiet to survive. In Qatar we perceive that the general population support the ruling class as it’s made them very wealthy and are happy to benefit from slave labour.

How do you know that? You have been told by people, doesn't mean its true. Don't swallow propoganda wholesale.

user1471453601 · 26/11/2022 21:05

To the poster who commented about the lack of male out footballers. That's precisely the reason why the arm bands are important, to encourage fans not to discriminate so a male gay footballer feels free to come out, if they so wish.

Oh, and there are many gay out, elite footballers, though all of them are women.

Whattaboutit · 26/11/2022 21:14

Msgrieves · 26/11/2022 20:50

How do you know that? You have been told by people, doesn't mean its true. Don't swallow propoganda wholesale.

Yes, it’s a perception. I have no idea what people in Qatar actually think about their rulers.

1dayatatime · 26/11/2022 22:08

It's worth noting that when England hosted the World Cup homosexuality was also illegal in England.

Clearly it is outrageously wrong to make homosexuality illegal in either country but a bit hypocritical of England to criticise Qatar.

Keyansier · 26/11/2022 22:15

user1471453601 · 26/11/2022 21:05

To the poster who commented about the lack of male out footballers. That's precisely the reason why the arm bands are important, to encourage fans not to discriminate so a male gay footballer feels free to come out, if they so wish.

Oh, and there are many gay out, elite footballers, though all of them are women.

I'm a gay man and nobody is going to stop being discriminatory towards gay men if they are already that way inclined because they see a footballer wearing a rainbow arm band. It's pathetic and just a way for organisations and the people involved to make money for themselves and feel good about it and look good. I'm embarrassed that people fall for it.

It is also no surprise that out (current) footballers are mainly women. Because (without this sounding offensive) a lot of people often perceive majority of female footballers to be lesbians (even though majority are not). So someone yelling "lesbian" or a lesbian slur at a female footballer on a pitch if they are straight or gay doesn't have the same impact as someone yelling "gay" or a gay slur at a male footballer. It doesn't happen and so they are freer to come out.

Florenz · 26/11/2022 22:24

I haven't really heard much criticism in real life, it's just the same few people online bleating about it, and most of them hate football to start with.

The time for criticism was 12 years ago when FIFA awarded the tournament to Qatar. It's a bit too late at this point.

PetraBP · 27/11/2022 01:05

I’m more concerned about the fact that people are criticising the Qatari’s for restricting alcohol sales.

Now that is cultural imperialism.

Also, on LGBT etc rights, it’s not just Muslim countries.

Remember, well within living memory European countries including our own criminalised LGBT. Many Commonwealth countries still do too.

handbagsandholidays · 27/11/2022 01:10

I agree OP. I can't understand why Qatar has been singled out.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 27/11/2022 01:27

Aishah231 · 26/11/2022 14:41

Which country has been involved in more illegal wars and coups than any other? The USA.

I'm with you OP - it's tokenistic virtue signalling hypocritical bollocks!

Agree.

I suspect it’s also a tinge of racism.

FlamingJingleBells · 27/11/2022 01:44

I think it’s interesting that the footballers who are going on about LGBTQ rights, none —that I know of— have actually come out as gay. Are there any gay footballers in the domestic or national teams that have publicly come out? Each nation needs to look at how inclusive its own teams & infrastructure are before dictating others. Football as a whole has a long way to go to make the sport fully inclusive.

Not all Football fans are known for being inclusive, you only need to remember the horrific racial abuse that the black England players were subjected to during the Euros. So it’s a bit one sided to just criticise the Qataris alone in this. I don’t think they should have been awarded the World Cup, however dialogue should continue so that the Qataris don’t close down & become insular after the World Cup ends.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 27/11/2022 01:45

There are no ‘out’ Premier League footballers. And that’s not because there isn’t any - I agree that players’ energy would be better spent promoting tolerance of other players to come out rather than moaning about Qatar (and then happily playing their game there because heaven Corbin they actually have the courage of their convictions)

TomPinch · 27/11/2022 02:10

flashbac · 26/11/2022 20:31

This statistic has been debunked. Its fake.

The Guardian, which originally made the claim, has not retracted it.

TomPinch · 27/11/2022 03:01

@daretodenim

How is it whataboutery? It's a totally fair comparison made with Western football in order to highlight the hypocrisy of Western media. Homophobia may not be acceptable in the West in general..only it IS in football and isn't even that hidden. It's an open secret (although barely a secret) and nobody is complaining, wearing armbands in solidarity with gay players, or saying they'd like to boycott matches because of it!

Come on!!

But first, an aside. I'm not in favour of sporting events being used to make statements, be it armbands of various colours, two-minute silences, poppies imprinted on shirts or taking the knee. I think it is part of a wider culture of expressing adherence to various causes, viewpoints and beliefs in a way that doesn't cost anything to the person doing it. Because this culture has got so pervasive, people are forced into insincere expressions of public solidarity to avoid getting a public shaming. It's a strong contrast to the Iranian team's protest which was genuinely brave and could cost them everything.

But that isn't really anything to do with whether Western footballers are being hypocritical or not, assuming that their protest is genuine (and I believe for the most part it is although I expect some players are probably falling into line). Your response is that they should sort out their own house first, ie, that football is homophobic. The problem with your extremely selective comparison is that it is literally teams of footballers who are making this protest. So whatever else you can say about it, those footballers, representatives of their national footballing federations, are not being homophobic, unlike Qatar - because it's really very clear that this protest is not about homophobia in football but homophobia in society generally. At present Qatari law allows a person to be put to death for homosexual acts. That's not a very good starting point for Qatar.

There will always be homophobia at some level somewhere in the West. But concentrating ignores that in the West homophobia has gone from entirely normal to marginal, unlike Qatar. That's obvious. Someone else made the point that the protest is hypocritical because homosexuality was illegal in England when it hosted the World Cup. Good grief. That's a desperate argument. 1966 was a full 56 years ago. Apart from that, homosexual acts between women weren't illegal - even back then - and legalisation of homosexual acts between men was in process and they were legalised the following year.

I'm not totally following what your point [me: that the protest concentrates on LGBTQIA+] is in the second half of this. The media haven't only been discussing the illegality of homosexuality though, there's been plenty of other discussions. It's just what I was focussing my post on though as to me it's the clearest example of hypocrisy (to me) there is in all this.

We'll have to disagree on that too. My observation is that the armband issue is fundamentally about LGBTQIA+ rights. I expect that its proponents would disagree, but regardless of that they chose a rainbow theme for their armbands and the rainbow is these days a LGBTQIA+ symbol. It shows a certain central theme and my observation is that that's what the media are concentrating on too.

TomPinch · 27/11/2022 03:37

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 27/11/2022 01:27

Agree.

I suspect it’s also a tinge of racism.

No - it's because there was no legitimate reason for Qatar to get it over other, much better, bids.

It just shows what a shonky outfit FIFA has become. Racism has absolutely nothing to do with it.

TheLeadbetterLife · 27/11/2022 03:51

There’s a lot to dislike about this World Cup and how Qatar got the bid, but how on earth is it ruining Christmas? It finishes a week before Christmas begins.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 27/11/2022 05:06

TomPinch · 27/11/2022 03:37

No - it's because there was no legitimate reason for Qatar to get it over other, much better, bids.

It just shows what a shonky outfit FIFA has become. Racism has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I’m not sure what you took from my post but I wasn’t talking about FIFA, I was talking about the everyday man quick to criticise Qatar but prop up other (white) nations

TomPinch · 27/11/2022 05:14

OK - I should clarify.

I think the everyday person is quick to criticize Qatar getting this World Cup for the reasons I mention above. I guess that's to do with both FIFA and Qatar.

There's clearly a better explanation for this than racism.